Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus Connection

horus manure

This article was published in the Nov-Dec 2012 issue of Catholic Answers Magazine.

Many atheists, neo-pagans, and other disbelievers of Christianity claim the story of Jesus Christ was borrowed from earlier mythologies. In recent years, a claim has been making the rounds that Jesus is based on the Egyptian god, Horus.

Who was Horus?
Horus is one of the oldest recorded deities in the ancient Egyptian religion. Often depicted as a falcon or a man with a falcon head, Horus was believed to be the god of the sun and of war. Initially he appeared as a local god, but over time the ancient Egyptians came to believe the reigning pharaoh was a manifestation of Horus (cf. Encyclopedia Britannica, “Horus”).

What about Jesus?
The skeptical claims being made about Jesus are not always the same. In some versions he was a persuasive teacher whose followers later attempted to deify him by adopting aspects of earlier god-figures, while in others he is merely an amalgamation of myths and never really existed at all. Both versions attempt to provide evidence that the Gospel accounts of the life of Christ are rip-offs.

In the 2008 documentary film Religulous (whose name is a combination of religion and ridiculous), erstwhile comedian and political commentator Bill Maher confronts an unprepared Christian with this claim. Here is part of their interaction.

Bill Maher: But the Jesus story wasn’t original.
Christian man: How so?
Maher: Written in 1280 B.C., the Book of the Dead describes a God, Horus. Horus is the son of the god Osiris, born to a virgin mother. He was baptized in a river by Anup the Baptizer who was later beheaded. Like Jesus, Horus was tempted while alone in the desert, healed the sick, the blind, cast out demons, and walked on water. He raised Asar from the dead. “Asar” translates to “Lazarus.” Oh, yeah, he also had twelve disciples. Yes, Horus was crucified first, and after three days, two women announced Horus, the savior of humanity, had been resurrected.

Maher is only repeating things that are and believed by many people today. Similar claims are made in movies such as Zeitgeist and Religulous and in pseudo-academic books such as Christ in Egypt: The Jesus-Horus Connection and Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth.

Often Christians are not prepared for this type of encounter, and some are even swayed by this line of argumentation.  Maher’s tirade provides a good summary of the claims, so let’s deconstruct it, one line at a time.

Written in 1280 BC, the Book of the Dead describes a God, Horus.
In fact, there are many “books of the dead.” But there is no single, official Book of the Dead. The books are collections of ancient Egyptian spells that were believed to help the deceased on their journey to the afterlife. The title Book of the Dead comes from an Arabic label referring to the fact that the books were mostly found with mummies (cf. The Oxford Guide to Egyptian Mythology, “Funerary Literature”). Some of these texts contain vignettes depicting the god Horus, but they don’t tell us much about him.

Our information about Horus comes from a variety of archaeological sources. What we do know from the most recent scholarship on the subject is that there were many variations of the story, each of them popularized at different times and places throughout the 5,000-year span of ancient Egyptian history. Egyptologists recognize the possibility that these differences may have been understood as aspects or facets of the same divine persona, but they nevertheless refer to them as distinct Horus-gods (cf. The Oxford Guide to Egyptian Mythology, “Horus”).

Part of the problem with the “Jesus is Horus” claim is that in order to find items that even partially fit the life story of Jesus, advocates of the view must cherry-pick bits of myth from different epochs of Egyptian history. This is possible today because modern archaeology has given us extensive knowledge of Egypt’s religious beliefs and how they changed over time, making it possible to cite one detail from this version of a story and another from that.

But the early Christians, even if they had wanted to base the Gospels on the Horus myths, would have had no way to do so. They might have known what was believed about Horus in the Egypt of their day, but they would have had no access to the endless variations of the stories that laid buried in the sands until archaeologists started digging them up in the 1800s.

Another part of the problem is that the claimed parallels between Jesus and Horus contain half-truths, distortions, and flat-out falsehoods. For example . . .

Horus is the son of the god Osiris, born to a virgin mother.
The mother of Horus was believed to be the goddess Isis. Her husband, the god Osiris, was killed by his enemy Seth, the god of the desert, and later dismembered. Isis managed to retrieve all of Osiris’s body parts except for his phallus, which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by catfish. (I’m not making this up).  Isis used her goddess powers to temporarily resurrect Osiris and fashion a golden phallus. She was then impregnated, and Horus was conceived. However this story may be classified, it is not a virgin birth.

He was baptized in a river by Anup the Baptizer, who was later beheaded.
There is no character named Anup the Baptizer in ancient Egyptian mythology. This is the concoction of a 19th-century English poet and amateur Egyptologist by the name of Gerald Massey (see sidebar 2 below). Massey is the author of several books on the subject of Egyptology; however, professional Egyptologists have largely ignored his work. In fact, his writing is held in such low regard in archaeological circles that it is difficult to find references to him in reputable modern publications.

In the book Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection (Stellar House Publishing, 2009), author D. M. Murdock, drawing heavily from Gerald Massey, identifies “Anup the Baptizer” as the Egyptian god Anubis. Murdock then attempts to illustrate parallels between Anubis and John the Baptist.

Some evidence exists in Egyptian tomb paintings and sculptures to support the idea that a ritual washing was done during the coronation of Pharaohs, but it is always depicted as having been done by the gods. This indicates that it may have been understood as a spiritual event that likely never happened in reality (cf. Alan Gardiner, “The Baptism of Pharaoh,” The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, vol. 36). This happened only to kings (if it happened to them at all), and one searches in vain to find depictions of Horus being ritually washed by Anubis.

Like Jesus, Horus was tempted while alone in the desert.
The companion guide to the film Zeitgeist outlines the basis for this claim by explaining, “As does Satan with Jesus, Set (aka Seth) attempts to kill Horus. Set is the ‘god of the desert’ who battles Horus, while Jesus is tempted in the desert by Satan” (p. 23).

Doing battle with the “god of the desert” is not the same as being tempted while alone in the desert; and according to the Gospel accounts, Satan did not attempt to kill Jesus there (cf. Matt. 4, Mark 1:12-13, Luke 4:1-13).

The relationship between Horus and Seth in the ancient Egyptian religion was quite different than the relationship between Jesus and Satan. While Seth and Horus were often at odds with each other, it was believed that their reconciliation was what allowed the pharaohs to rule over a unified country. It was believed that the pharaoh was a “Horus reconciled to Seth, or a gentleman in whom the spirit of disorder had been integrated” (The Oxford Guide to Egyptian Mythology, “Seth”). In stark contrast, there is never any reconciliation between Jesus and Satan in Scripture.

Healed the sick, the blind, cast out demons, and walked on water.
The Metternich Stella, a monument from the 4th century B.C., tells a story in which Horus is poisoned by Seth and brought back to life by the god Thoth at the request of his mother, Isis. The ancient Egyptians used the spell described on this monument to cure people. It was believed that the spirit of Horus would dwell within the sick, and they would be cured the same way he was. This spiritual indwelling is a far cry from the physical healing ministry of Christ. Horus did not travel the countryside laying his hands on sick people and restoring them to health.

He raised Asar from the dead. “Asar” translates to “Lazarus.”
The name Osirus is a Greek transliteration of the Egyptian name Asar. As I mentioned earlier, Osirus is the father of Horus, and, according to the myth, he was killed by Seth and briefly brought back to life by Isis in order to conceive Horus.  It was not Horus who raised “Asar” from the dead. It was his mother.

The name Lazarus is actually derived from the Hebrew word Eleazar meaning “God has helped.” This name was common among the Jews of Jesus’ time. In fact, two figures in the New Testament bear this name (cf. John 11, Luke 16:19-31).

Oh, yeah, he also had twelve disciples.
Again, this claim finds its origin in the work of Gerald Massey (Ancient Egypt: The Light of the World, book 12), which points to a mural depicting “the twelve who reap the harvest.” But Horus does not appear in the mural.

In the various Horus myths, there are indications of the four “Sons of Horus,” or six semi-gods, who followed him, and at times there were various numbers of human followers, but they never add up to twelve. Only Massey arrives at this number, and he does so only by referencing the mural with no Horus on it.

Yes, Horus was crucified first.
In many of the books and on the websites that attempt to make this connection, it is often pointed out that there are several ancient depictions of Horus standing with his arms spread in cruciform.  One can only answer this with a heartfelt “So what?”  A depiction of a person standing with his arms spread is not unusual, nor is it evidence that the story of a crucified savior predates that of Jesus Christ.

We do have extensive evidence from extra-biblical sources that the Romans around the time of Christ practiced crucifixion as a form of capital punishment. Not only that, but we have in the Bible actual eyewitness accounts of Jesus’ crucifixion. On the other hand, there is no historical evidence at all to suggest that the ancient Egyptians made use of this type of punishment.

And after three days, two women announced Horus, the savior of humanity, had been resurrected.
As I explained before, the story of the child Horus dying and being brought back to life is described on the Metternich Stella, which in no way resembles the sacrificial death of Jesus. Christ did not die as a child, only to be brought back to life because his grieving mother went to the animal-headed god of magic.

The mythology surrounding Horus is closely tied with the pharaohs, because they were believed to be Horus in life and Osirus in death. With the succession of pharaohs over the centuries came new variations on the myth. Sometimes Horus was believed to be the god of the sky, and at other times he was believed to be the god of war, at other times both; but he was never described as a “savior of humanity.”

Combating the never-ending list of parallels
If you do an Internet search on this subject, you will come across lists of supposed parallels between Jesus and Horus that are much longer than Bill Maher’s filmic litany. What they all have in common is that they do not cite their sources.

Should you encounter people who try to challenge you with these claims, ask them to explain where it is they got their information. Many times you will find that they originate with Gerald Massey or one of his contemporaries. Sometimes they have been repeated and expanded on by others. But these claims have little or no connection to the facts.

You should challenge the person making the claim to produce a primary source or a statement from a scholarly secondary source that has a footnote that can be checked. Then make sure the sources being quoted come from scholars with a Ph.D. in a relevant field, such as a person who teaches Egyptology at the university level.

Due to the mass of misinformation on the Internet and in print on this subject, it is important to respond to these claims using credible sources. Fortunately, there are many good books on Egypt and Egyptology in print. But there are also bad ones, so make sure to verify the author’s credentials before purchasing them.

The study of ancient Egypt has come a long way since its beginning in the 1800s, and new discoveries are being made even today that improve upon our understanding of the subject. It’s safe to say they will do nothing to bolster the alleged Jesus-Horus connection.

The Horus mythology developed over a period of 5,000 years, and as a result it can be a complex subject to tackle. But you don’t have to be an Egyptologist to answer all of these claims. You just need to know where to look for the answers—and to be aware of the claims’ flawed sources.

Sidebar 1:
A brief history of modern Egyptology

The Rosetta Stone

Modern Egyptology really begins with the French campaign in Egypt and Syria initiated by Napoleon Bonaparte around 1798. Among other things, the French established a scientific exploration of the region.

In 1799, a soldier named Pierre-Francois Bouchard discovered the Rosetta Stone, which contained a bilingual text that eventually led to the translation of Egyptian hieroglyphs. Prior to this, our knowledge of ancient Egypt’s 5,000-year history was limited to what was known through the writings of pre-Christian Greek historians such as Herodotus and Strabo.

The discovery of the Rosetta Stone led to a renewed interest by the Europeans in all things ancient Egypt, commonly referred to now as “Egyptomania.”  It was not until nearly a century later that Egyptology as an academic discipline began to come into its own. Since that time, we have a much better understanding of ancient Egyptian history and culture.

Sidebar 2:
Massey scholarship

Gerald Massey

When researching the supposed Egyptian influences on Christianity, inevitably one comes across the name Gerald Massey. Massey was an English poet and amateur Egyptologist who lived from 1828 to 1907. He is the author of three books on the subject: The Book of the Beginnings, The Natural Genesis, and Ancient Egypt: The Light of the World. Because his books represent some of the earliest attempts to draw comparisons between the Christian and Egyptian religions, other writers attempting to draw these comparisons frequently cite them.

One recent example is the book Christ in Egypt; The Horus-Jesus Connection by D.M. Murdock. In it the author states: “This present analysis of the claims regarding the correspondences between the Egyptian and Christian religions is not dependent on Massey’s work for the most part,” yet she devotes an entire chapter of the book to defending the authenticity of Massey’s scholarship (something she does not feel called to do for anyone else she quotes in her book) and thereafter adopting many of the same comparisons.

Critics of Massey’s work often point out that he had no formal education in the area of Egyptology. While this is a valid criticism, I think it is also important to point out that the study of ancient Egyptian religion has advanced far beyond what was known in the 19th century. Not only is much of Massey’s scholarship built on wild speculation, it is also the product of an academic discipline still in its infancy.

208 comments

  1. Bill Entrikin says:

    Great article Jon. Nice job of picking apart those false statements.

    • brandt says:

      I am always curious at these type of posts. I like to think of myself as being neutral but after reading around 20 lengthy books on the subject I tend to lean towards what I would call the definitive reality of Massey’s, Kuhn’s, Joseph Campbell’s and many many others that have PHD’s ..(as if you can ‘t be right if you don’t have an experts establishment stamp!)

      From what I have seen almost every comparative teacher and book on it says these things. There are dozens of other examples of not parallels but the same thing, parallel implies the narratives are different when on the whole they are the same time and time again. Why do you think they chose dec. 25 th for christmas so near to the Solstice 3 days after it..hmmm Why midnight mass that aligns with the celestial bodies precisely at that exact time? hmmm gee maybe i should ask an expert.. i can’t figure out anything for myself.. Why Easter so near to the equinox? Why 40 days of lent? Why the fish and lamb symbolism.. ?

      The whole point is to get at the truth not preserve a predisposition, or preserve something that is not true if indeed it isn’t or if we are taking a literal for a non literal etc. the church historically too is one of the most corrupt institutions in history lets not forget. Naive children is what people are.

      Also Massey is no amateur in the least many moderns will attest to that, trust me it doesn’t matter if someone has or doesn’t have a PHD when they are a genius. I think any student of anthropology can understand the nature of religion and the long god/messiah figures that have been prevalent within the sociological framework.

      I love when religion claims to be the champion of natural law and objective truth..what a joke.. read some history on your religion.

      One last thing I feel sorry for anyone that reads this article and takes a belief from it as being true or not true. It takes thousands of pages of reading and studying to decide for yourself what actually happened. But like brainwashed children we always look for the reductive simple answer to make us feel warm and cozy so we can fall or stay fast asleep.

      Some AUTHORITY figure ordained by the modern priest hood tell me the answer as I can’t think for myself…..

      • JONS1973 says:

        I’ve written about almost all the claims you’ve made. Feel free to check out my other stuff on this site.

        I do want to comment on Massey, though. I agree with you that someone does not need to have a degree in history to make a good point. My criticism of Massey’s work is that it’s dated. He wrote when Egyptology was in its infancy. On top of that, “parallels mania” was also a popular trend. But the research has far surpassed what was known in those early stages.

      • preethi says:

        blown away by your articulate rejoinder… joining your fan club brandt

      • Michael Neubert says:

        The date for Christmas? Good question, here’s the answer.
        http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-10-012-v

        • Jero Jones says:

          Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus connection.
          Hi Michael Neubert
          With the utmost respect, your link to the touchstonemag is bias and not worthy of a academic citation, as its facts are in favour towards a Christians view and not historical facts. Pagans followed the seasons, especially in relation to the sun, such as the summer and winter solstice, and the Roman from the 270’s revered Sol Invictus (unconquered sun), and the Roman date for his birth and festival was December 25th. The first recorded Christian festival celebrating Christ’s birth was recorded in 354 CE.[http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/chronography_of_354_01_dedicatio.htm.] In the chronography of that year, part 12 clearly shows VIII kal. Ian natus Christus in Betleem Iudeae, which means 8 days before the calendar of January (Dec. 25th) for the birth of Christ in Bethlehem, Judaea.[http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/chronography_of_354_12_depositions_martyrs.htm] On the calendar of December for the 25th day, you will see the inscription N.INVICTI.CM.XXX, which is the birthday of the sun god Sol Invictus.[ibid part 6, at the bottom of the page when you scroll down]
          The Roman Church chose this date to coincide with that of Sol Invictus festival.
          further information that Christmas and Easter are of pagan origin, as Christianity adopted as many as 80% of practices from paganism, this is what the eminent theologian and scholar, Cardinal John Henry Newman (1801-90) on Christianity/Catholicism, wrote: …The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holy days and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church….[Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, John Henry Newman, p. 373 (1906 edition)] Two of the seasons Newman was discussing as of Pagan origins are Christmas (Winter solstice) and Easter (Summer Solstice).
          Cofion (regards)

          Jero Jones, Mab Cymru

          • JONS1973 says:

            You make a common mistake in this comment. Prior to 354, there is no evidence that the Romans celebrated Sol Invictus on December 25. In fact, the first evidence we have for this is in the Chronology of 354, and Christmas is there on the same calendar.

          • Jero Jones says:

            Hi Jon1973,
            You are turning my citation to your own agenda, Christians did not in the early centuries of Christianity celebrate birthday of festivals. This is what academia (Chicago University) say of the Chronography of 354: In another section of the Chronography commemorating the laying to rest of martyrs (Disposition of Martyrs, the earliest record of the Roman sanctoral), the liturgical year begins on December 25, and VIII Kal. Jan. is annotated natus Christus in Betleem Iudeae (“Christ was born in Bethlehem of Judea”). In a section listing the consuls, there also is a note for AD 1: dominus Iesus Christus natus est VIII kal. Ian. These are the first references to December 25 as the birthday of Jesus. Since no martyrs are mentioned after AD 336, the first celebration of Christmas observed by the Roman church in the West is presumed to date to that year.
            [http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/calendar/invictus.html]
            There are hundreds of citations on the Chronography of 354, as being the first recording of Jesus birthday on Christmas day or 25th December, the same day as the birthday of Sol Invictus, which had been celebrated by Pagan from mid 200’s.

            Cofion (regards)

            Jero Jones, Mab

          • JONS1973 says:

            I didn’t turn your citation into anything. There is no mention of Sol Invictus being celebrated on December 25 prior to the Chronology of 354. You say they celebrated it then as early as 200, and I’m telling you that there is no substantiation for that claim. If December 25 was mentioned regarding Sol Invictus prior to the 354 calendar, then please tell me where that is. I would like to see it.

          • Jero Jones says:

            Hi jons1973
            On the issue of Sol Invictus birthday being celebrated on the winter solstice or 25th December, the Church House Publishing 1991 (ISBN 978-0-71513738-3) quoted in The Date of Christmas and Epiphany, states: …In Rome by 274 AD the Winter solstice was a public holiday in honour of Sol Invictus, the unconquered sun. In the East a slightly different calendar was followed, and the winter solstice was 6th January….[http://www.oremus.org/liturgy/etc/ktf/intro.html#xmas]
            The Eastern church still to this day celebrates 6th January, whereas the Western church celebrates the winter solstice or 25th December/Xmas day
            Cofion (regards)

            Jero Jones

          • Jero Jones says:

            Hi Jons1973,
            Further information regarding Sol Invictus celebration on the winter solstice or 25th December, and of the Christian who assimilated Sol Invictus birthday with that of Jesus.
            The scholar Snyder wrote: …worship of the sun was a principal imperial cult prior to Constantine. It was promoted under Antoninus Pius (138-161 CE). A temple to sol Invictus was established by Elagabalus during his reign (218-222). Concern for the sun god was revived by Aurelian (270-275), who among other things, established the winter solstice, 25th December, as natalis solis invicti (birthday of the unconquered sun)….[Graydon F. Snyder, Ante Pacem: Archaeological Evidence of Church Life Before Constantine, pp. 120-22] or
            http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=swtI9Cpyl3kC&pg=PA122&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

            Cofion (Regards)
            Jero Jones

          • H says:

            Dear Jero,

            In a way, the Touchstone Archives may be biased towards Christian views, as you say. Ofcourse they are, because they are written by a Christian, arguing Christian matters. I do not believe in unbiased writing. You must admit that you are just as guilty of bias as the articles that Michael Neubert brought forward, by simply ignoring the “Jewish feasts argument”.

            When you take the time to read those articles and keep in mind that Jesus was a Jew and that the Jews are really Gods people, the claim that Christian religion is – for a great deal – made by Constantine and the Catholic Church does not seem that strange. I, therefore, think the answers to these dates lie with the Jews.

      • Michael Neubert says:

        And this explains the date for Easter.
        http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=23-02-026-f

    • Dianne E. says:

      Having been raised a Catholic, I understand why Christians need to believe that what your article states is true. However, I am no longer religious. So many ‘miracles’ in the Bible are not miracles, i.e. the parting of the Red Sea: The Red Sea’s water is so low at times, you can walk across it. No miracle. It still happens. While believing strongly in the Almighty, I look at look at articles such as this from an objective point of view. I usually pick one statement and research it. In this case I chose ‘crucifixion’ and your saying that Egyptians did not crucify. I came across: http://www.bible-history.com/biblestudy/crucifixion.html Unfortunately, when articles of this sort are written, if there is a statement that can be proven to be untrue, the entire article comes into question. I did notice that other mis-information was pointed out to you.

      • JONS1973 says:

        The Bible never says that the Red Sea was parted. It says “the sea of reeds.” I know many people like to speculate that a strong wind could part the Red Sea (and maybe that’s true), but we are not sure if that is the sea mentioned in Exodus. Also, the link you provided makes a lot of claims about crucifixion, but it doesn’t give us any sources to check. For example, it says Darius I had 3,000 men crucified 500 years before Jesus, but I can’t find any sources to back that up. Some early scholars have conflated crucifixion with implement (and that might be what is happening here) but I have not found anything to confirm that it actually happened. If you find something, post it here. I’m happy to take a look at it. Until then, I stand by what I wrote.

    • Jero Jones says:

      With respect, I would like to comment here in defence of historical truth on the issue, Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus Connection. I have been researching history for more than five decades, and my comments are: Was Jesus a copy of Horus, or any of the ancient gods of classical antiquity. What proof exists for this assumption that Christianity plagiarising Pagan gods, or is it a modern phenomena brought about by sceptics of Christianity? Or was there a real connection of virgin births and resurrection in the beliefs of ancient Pagan gods, or is it the propaganda tactics of non-believers? Well according the ancient documents there was dissension between Pagans and Christian over this issue of Christians copying Pagan deities. Which can be found in the Ante Nicene Father, and the work of Justin Martyr, or The First Apologies of Justin Martyr, etc.
      Again with the utmost respect, you have probably heard the terms liars, deceivers, and forgers said in connection with anomalies to do with the New Testament, however, you have probably not heard the term(s) ‘diabolical mimicry’ or ‘plagiarism by anticipation.’ Well the former ‘diabolical mimicry’ derives from the ancient church-fathers, especially that of Justin Martyr, who claimed that the various old world gods mimicked Jesus, such as the Pagan gods that were said to be born of a virgin on the Winter solstice (c. 25th December), and who were crucified and resurrected, etc. These numerous Pagan gods were probably revered more than a millennium before the advent of Jesus or Christianity, and yet, the Christian church-father readily accused them of mimicking Jesus. Stating that it was the work of Devil, who had been mimicking Jesus for hundreds of years or even thousands of years before the birth of Christianity, and it was all done to belittle Jesus when he finally arrived.
      In a dialogue with Trypho, a Jewish Rabbi, whom he met in Ephesus c. 135, a dialogue which some scholars suppose that Justin Martyr (100-65) had edited at a later date, to better or enhance the cause of Christianity, wrote:…”Be well assured, then, Trypho,” I continued, “that I am established in the knowledge of and faith in the Scriptures by those counterfeits which he who is called the devil is said to have performed among the Greeks; just as some were wrought by the Magi in Egypt, and others by the false prophets in Elijah’s days. For when they tell that Bacchus, son of Jupiter, was begotten by [Jupiter’s] intercourse with Semele, and that he was the discoverer of the vine; and when they relate, that being torn in pieces, and having died, he rose again, and ascended to heaven; and when they introduce wine into his mysteries, do I not perceive that [the devil] has imitated the prophecy announced by the patriarch Jacob, and recorded by Moses? And when they tell that Hercules was strong, and travelled over all the world, and was begotten by Jove of Alcmene, and ascended to heaven when he died, do I not perceive that the Scripture which speaks of Christ, ‘strong as a giant to run his race,’ has been in like manner imitated? And when he [the devil] brings forward Æsculapius as the raiser of the dead and healer of all diseases, may I not say that in this matter likewise he has imitated the prophecies about Christ…?” Justin goes on to say in Ch. LXX (70) of the Ante-Nicene Fathers: …And when those who record the mysteries of Mithras say that he was begotten of a rock, and call the place where those who believe in him are initiated a cave, do I not perceive here that the utterance of Daniel, that a stone without hands was cut out of a great mountain, has been imitated by them, and that they have attempted likewise to imitate the whole of Isaiah’s words?… And when I hear, Trypho, said I, that Persus was begotten of a virgin, I understand that the deceiving serpent counterfeited also this….[Chapter LXIX (69) of Ante Nicene Fathers: The Devil, Since he Emulates the Truth, has invented Fables about Bacchus, Hercules, and Æsculapius]
      Justin Martyr was probably one of the best known of the early Christian apologetic, who by his very words recognized that similarities did exist in his day, of virgin birth and resurrection of early pagan gods! However, what is surprising, is his (Justin’s) apologetic stance on how to combat Pagan sceptic on their mocking of the virgin birth of Jesus, by using mimicry or plagiarism as being the the hallmark of the Devil.
      On the question of Christianity plagiarizing other gods, one needs to look at the work of scholars, and one such scholar wrote: Even before he was born, it is known that he would be someone special. A supernatural being informed his mother that the child she conceived would not be a mere mortal but would be divine. He was born miraculously, and he became an unusually precocious young man. As an adult he left home and went on an itinerant preaching ministry, urging his listeners to live, not for the material things of the world, but for what is spiritual. He gathered a number of disciples around him, who became convinced that his teaching were divinely inspired, in no small part because he himself was divine. He proved it to them by doing many miracles, healing the sick, casting out demons, and raising the dead. But at the end of his life he roused opposition, and his enemies delivered him over to the Roman authorities for judgement. Still, after he left this world, he returned to meet his followers in order to convince them that he was not really dead but live on in the heavenly realm, later some of his followers wrote a book about him….[Did Jesus Exist, by Prof. Bart D. Ehrman, p.208] Dr. Ehrman was not referring to Christ, but to the Greek Pagan Neopythagorean philosopher, Apollonius of Tyana (15-100 CE).
      On the issue of “Was Jesus a Copy of Horus, Mithras, Dionysus,” etc., we only have to look at the birthday of Sol Invictus, the Roman Sun god, whose date of birth was 25th December. A birthday that the Pagan Romans celebrated at least 200 years before Christianity celebrated the birth of their saviour. Christianity chose to adopt the same day Sol Invictus (25th December), and the first recorded of this event was in 354 CE.
      [http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/chronography_of_354_12_depositions_martyrs.htm]

      Cofion (Respect)

      Jero Jones, Mab Cymru

      N.B. My work is not intended to be seen as malice, it is based of historical documents and academic citation.

      • Shane says:

        Justin Martyr and Tertullian were commenting specifically on Mithraism which was believed to take hold only around in the 1st century AD, not “revered a millenium before Christianity”. Which is why they were certain that Mithraism was copying Christianity. And with regards to Mithraism, this is quite different from the Egyptian mythology that is mentioned in this article.

        For other accounts where Justin drew parallels from dubious mythologies, it was an attempt to convince the Roman emperor on the “similarities” between Christianity and the contemporary beliefs held in that time. How long these practices predate Christianity, or whether they actually predate Christianity, is not clear. Again, there is nothing mentioned about Osiris / Horus in these accounts. Finally, and more importantly, the so-called “similarities” are seen as a strained attempt to convince the Roman emperor that there is no reason to disfavor Christianity, which on closer look are not that similar actually.

  2. Maggie says:

    And after concocting this hoax, the Apostles all willingly died to preserve it? NOT! LOL

    • Pablo says:

      The whole point is that we cant take old scripts as a definite true, imagine if someone find old Harry potter books 2000 years from now, and believie everything it says…. its unacceptable

      • Bill says:

        Your argument may persuade simple minds. Unforgivably simple ones.

      • Jero Jones says:

        24/03/2015
        jonsorensen.net
        Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus connection.
        Hi Pablo
        I think that every historian, scholar, geologist, etc., would argue that point, and you would lose. Everything in any of the scholarly disciplines work from the oldest known source, biblical scholar would not use the king James version of the Bible, they would go to the oldest extant biblical manuscript (MS), which would probably be one of the many Greek MS that are extant.
        Cofion (regards)

        Jero Jones, Mab Cymru

  3. Tony says:

    Isn’t it enough proof that NO ONE has ever claimed to see an oil slick or an old bagel with the image of Horus?

  4. Chris M says:

    Well written,simple to understand. I have heard this claim many times before and your rebuttal is clear, concise and easy to understand. Keep up the great work.

  5. Harry Wallington says:

    It’s good to see support for the historical, as opposed to mythicist view – of Jesus.

  6. Howard says:

    My first reaction to seeing these claims was, “Wow, this is nothing like what I remember of Egyptian mythology!” With good reason, it seems. Maybe the best response to such nonsense is to point the accuser to a good reference on Egyptian mythology.

  7. David Wagner says:

    I knew that the comparison between Horus’ birth and Jesus’ didn’t stand because Isis and Osiris had sexual relations. Mary was miraculously conceived and did not know a man.

    I also knew that regardless of whether or not Horus was crucified and rose again three days later, it was certainly not for the purpose of atoning for the sins of humanity.

    But I appreciate very much the full account given in this article. Thank you.

    • dante says:

      Quoting directly from the article above: “Should you encounter people who try to challenge you with these claims, ask them to explain where it is they got their information … sometimes they have been repeated and expanded on by others. But these claims have little or no connection to the facts … you should challenge the person making the claim to produce a primary source or a statement from a scholarly secondary source that has a footnote that can be checked … then make sure the sources being quoted come from scholars with a Ph.D. in a relevant field”

      Based on the level of evidence required for Horus’ story, can you please provide factual evidence that “Mary was miraculously conceived and did not know a man”, that Jesus “was crucified and rose again three days later”, and that Jesus lived “for the purpose of atoning for the sins of humanity”.

      If your only source of evidence happens to be what’s reported in the Bible then I’m afraid that is even less than what’s provided in support of Horus.

      The article fails to acknowledge that the Bible is no other than a collection of events without a single cross reference to support them other than the circular reference to itself. It is not more ‘real’ than Horus.

      • JONS1973 says:

        Apples and oranges, my friend. Whether or not events are true is not what this article is about. I can point to the Bible and the writings of the early Christians as evidence that they at least belived that Jesus rose from the dead. There are no accounts in the historical record of Horus doing this. In order to make that connection, one has to conflate the stories of Horus and Osirus. That’s my point.

        • Jim Texan says:

          No. You are missing the point entirely. The point is that you are duped just as the ancient Egyptians. Can you not imagine being born into a society were your family and friends and your entire culture believes in this ancient Egyptian religion. And if you denied it, you would surely be shunned (if not outright killed back in the day.). Have you ever seen a person of another faith worship with tears in their eyes and with all of their might? They believe in their god just as strongly as any Christian. Anyone with any empathy can see the powerful belief across many different religions.

          The point is that Christianity was not even close to the “first” religion. It is just “another” religion. People have believed in gods to explain the world around them when they could not understand the science behind why the sun rises or why the tides work or why the seasons change or why bad things happened. And people in power have always used religion to control its people though the fear of punishment in the afterlife for not obeying laws. I believe that religion is a byproduct of civilization. Even people not exposed to middle eastern born religions like the native Americans, Eskimo, Aztec, island nations, etc… They all had religions and gods to explain the way the work worked and many believed in the afterlife…because it’s really really really nice to think that we are so important that this life is not all that we have dispute the billions of people that have all lived and died before us and despite the theory of evolution that we are another species born of this planet.

          They only thing that we know for sure is that all of these regions cannot all be correct. People are so stubborn about defending the flaws in Christianity and are terrified that the world is changing too fast for them to continue to keep people believing with the endless amount of information now available to people across the world.

          The hope that I would give to you is to keep searching for answers. Would your God punish you for genuinely seeking the truth with an earnest heart. Get out there and don’t close yourself off to other arguments, but explore the other possibilities out there. Maybe the beliefs of the family or culture that you just so happened to be born into by chance are not necessarily worth blindly following without questioning all other possibilities.

          • JONS1973 says:

            Jim, I’m a convert to Catholicism from atheism. I spent years looking at the truth claims of other religions. I don’t follow anything blindly without considering other possibilities. I do appreciate your input, though.

    • mike hudson says:

      isis and did not have sex. if you research the story you will find that isis replaced Osiris phallus with a golden obelisk. isis then transform into a swallow bird and hovered over the mummified body of Osiris. the spirit of Osiris entered into the body of the bird only to be reborn as horus the resurrection of Osiris.so there you have it. that is why jesus would reply me and my father is the same. you can see this story carved in stone today in Egypt. wake up people some smart scholars long ago found a way to transform ancient religions long before you were even thought of. do your research we are no longer in the dark ages.

  8. mary says:

    Someone pulled their subscription from this site because they felt that the site is quoting blasphmony and all blasphmony should be treated with a slap in the face and no rebuttle.
    I believe that it is the work of our clergy to teach us how to defend ourselves in the midst of the enemy and rebuke him. By slapping and ignoring the enemy you are playing right into his hands…you are using anger and hiding which are tools of the evil one.

  9. Mariusz says:

    And the most important fact to consider is this: Bill Maher is a standup comedian, not a religious scholar or an Egyptologist. Why even bother with the badly regurgitated nonsense he spouts?

    • JONS1973 says:

      I took the time to reply to this claim because, as a former atheist, it’s something I believed myself. It doesn’t take much to sway the poorly catechized. Bill Maher is just a vehicle. He summed up the claim pretty well in his movie, but there are a ton of books and movies that make the same claims.

  10. James says:

    I think you may have the etymology on “Asar” reversed. I believe “Asar” is actually the original Ancient Egyptian, and “Osiris” is the Greek transliteration.

    • JONS1973 says:

      I think you’re right. I’ll do some double checking when I have time and make the necessary corrections. Thanks for pointing that out. :)

  11. Fr. Robert Coogan says:

    There are many myths throughout the world that make us think of the story of Jesus. It should not surprise us. St. Justin Martyr believed that these myths were seeds planted to prepare the pagans for the Gospel when it finally arrived. The Second Vatican Council picked up on this concept of the “seeds of the Gospel”. We are used to hearing of this in terms of Aristotelian philosophy, but Justin specifically mentions drama and myth as well as philosophy. We know the story of Prometheus was seen as a prefiguring of Christ by many Fathers of the Church. It lacks logic to think that, if Horus had fallen out of favor, someone would try to build a new religion on his story. Why would they expect that it would be successful, if Horus was not?

    • Bill O'Byrne says:

      C.S. Lewis deals with the subject of Mythology brilliantly by using the same argumentation as Justin Martyr, calling Jesus a fulfillment of mythology in reality (see “Myth Became Fact” and “Perelandra” chs. 11 & 16). In these arguments, we are also dealing with a set of presuppositions that always need to be surfaced, not just refuting the claims. “Mythologists” claim that the Scripture is merely a Christian myth, because of these so-called parallels. They think Christ and the apostles could not have been real; it doesn’t matter to them whether the parallels were conscious or not. They presuppose the opposite of much Christians presume: the Scriptures “have to be” mythological products of the 2nd-4th cent. church; they do don’t represent eyewitness or historical evidence of any authenticity. We cannot simply argue with them based on “the Bible says really happened” because they don’t believe the Bible reflects fact. What Lewis’ and Justin’s position does is stands the “cause and effect” of these even supposed mythological parallels on their head, by saying in essence: “Of course Christ fulfills all truth for all peoples in all times — truth that has been inherently contained in the created universe from its foundation, as its foundation.” And yet while doing so Christians should not claim that this argument is a “counter-proof”, but this demonstrate that their counter-argument is just as dependent on their starting point, as they claim ours is, and that there is another explanation for these phenomena that is just as plausible as theirs. In the end we are still dealing with faith: presuppositions about what is true which may have supporting evidence, but cannot be proven.

  12. I have fun with, cause I discovered just what I used to be taking a look for. You’ve ended my 4 day lengthy hunt! God Bless you man. Have a nice day. Bye

  13. […] Okay, This Wins Some Kind of Prize Just for the TitleOctober 29, 2012 By Mark Shea Leave a CommentHorus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus Connection /* /* Filed Under: Uncategorized Tagged With: Apologetic stuff Leave a Comment « A Tip for […]

  14. Joe Paul says:

    Great article on a topic that I like some Catholics have heard from time to time depending on the futility of the atheist or secularist we are speaking to. Can you possibly update the post with footnotes as to the sources of the material? As it is now, it sounds like a great refutation of the Jesus/Horus myth however the minute someone asks for our proof I will as dumb as Bill Maher and his ilk. Help defeat the ilk! Help us Jon Sorerson, you are our only hope!

  15. Danny S says:

    Great article, but I didn’t see a reference to any specific Egyptology works, or even scholars. I would like to something like that in this post. But also, let me know if I am just missing it.

    • Danny S says:

      Okay, never mind. I take my comment back. I do see sources. But I think it would be an extra advantage to your arguments if you listed all the sources you used at the bottom of the article as well. Just a thought.

  16. […] also links to an article published in the Nov-Dec 2012 issue of Catholic Answers Magazine titled Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus Connection by Jon Sorensen. The author really deserves some kind of award for that pun. […]

  17. Ismael says:

    We ougt to make our own movie, called “Atheistupid”. Bill Maher alone would make quite an interesting interview if confronted with the BS he presented in Religulous. hehe

  18. […] Debunking the Horus/Jesus Connection […]

  19. joe says:

    What about the story of NOAH? IT
    t was a story made by GIGLAMESH in Iraq 1500yrs before jesus. How do we explain that?

    • JONS1973 says:

      The Old Testament is older than Jesus, so the dating of Gilgamesh doesn’t bother me. Many ancient cultures have flood stories. Perhaps that is because there was a great flood in ancient times. The story of a Noah is probably the one that was passed down in Jewish culture. There are a few plausible theories in this regard. Perhaps I’ll write something on this when I can find the time.

  20. Plaz says:

    From the article:
    Should you encounter people who try to challenge you with these claims, ask them to explain where it is they got their information.

    And where do you get your information? From the bible? Unless you can prove the existence of God, the bible has zero credibility.

    • JONS1973 says:

      I cited all the sources where I got my information in the article. What does proving the existence of God have anything at all to do with whether or not Jesus and Horus have parallel stories?

      • All stories excepting the Jesus story are false. All the supermen, sons of god, miracle workers,the infallible, and all powerful gods are made up. The only true story is the Jesus one because we have proof. Whoops, we don’t. Well anyway be sure to send us a check. Our hands are too soft for work so give us ten percent of the gross and don’t tax us because we believe we really do. What does proving the existence of god have to do with whether or not Jesus and Horus have parallel stories? Mister they were both said to be gods. Don’t you get it?

        • JONS1973 says:

          Proving the existence of God is beside the point. For the sake of argument, let’s say no God exists, and Jesus and Horus are both fictional characters. All that is left now is the claim that they have parallel stories. They don’t have parallel stories, and claims that they do are based on outdated research and speculation. That’s the point of my article.

      • dante says:

        “What does proving the existence of God have anything at all to do with whether or not Jesus and Horus have parallel stories?” … well, a hell of a lot!

        Both claim to be Son of or is a God. But if God doesn’t exist then they are both mythical figures with false claims.

        Have you considered that instead of Horus and Jesus story running in parallel, the later one was in part plagiarized from Horus and other information that have been transferred through the various generations. As you well know, it isn’t necessary to have written and documented information for stories to survive, be modified and recounted with embellishments over several centuries. Australian Aborigines stories clearly testify to this assertion. They had no written record of the Sacred Snake giving life but the story has survived for more than 40,000 years!

        Please consult this site that deals with materials plagiarized from various sources that found their way into the Bible. As stated on the site “To be fair to the Church, it had no other option, as the roots of the plagiarism were already embedded in its own roots [eg] Judaism (have you ever wondered why the Pope wears a yamulke?) [which is] heavily influenced by, or actually based on, Egyptian religious thought, then by necessity Christianity and Islam must also be based upon the same concepts, and an unbiased examination of the three religions shows numerous parallels with Sethian/ Osirian/ Isian principles.”

        https://sites.google.com/site/religionsciencevsfaith/home/forbidden-knowledge-christianity-plagiarized-from-ancient-egypt/material-plagiarized-from-egypt-for-the-creation-of-the-bible

        • JONS1973 says:

          “Have you considered that instead of Horus and Jesus story running in parallel, the later one was in part plagiarized from Horus and other information that have been transferred through the various generations.”

          That’s what my article is about. Are you sure you read it?

          Whether or not Jesus and Horus are real has nothing to do with the claim that they have similar stories. That’s what I was looking at in this article.

  21. EB says:

    Well, because if there is no God, there was no Jesus. This is basically arguing over two mythical characters.

    • JONS1973 says:

      That argument is pretty weak. If there’s no God, that would only prove that Jesus was not divine. It wouldn’t prove Jesus never existed. The argument in my article is that the attributes of Jesus and Horus are nothing alike. Whether you believe in either one is irrelevant.

  22. baden snaxx says:

    I noticed you did not give a full explanation of how Isis became impregnated with Horus. There was no physical contact, she hovered above Osisris, & became pregnant. I presume you were aware of this & didn’t include it because it weakens your argument. How different was Horus’ conception to that of Jesus?
    You also didn’t mention that the Egyptian Empire encompassed the Holy Land more than a few times. The people of this region would be more than knowledgeable about Egyptian religions, 1000’s of years before the arrival of modern archaeology.
    Crucifixion was carried out in Egypt, in fact, the evidence suggests that’s where it started.
    Your research is weak, & your explanation dishonest, but oh so apologetic.

    • JONS1973 says:

      There was no physical contact. According to the legend, Isis was impregnated by a prosthetic phallus. The Egyptian empire did at times encompass the area of Jerusalem, but that does not negate my point. The Egyptians themselves were not fully aware of the various Horus legends. As far as crucifixion, there is no evidence that it was used by Egyptians. I cited the latest scholarly research on the subject. If I am supposed to take any of your points seriously, then perhaps you should do the same.

      • baden snaxx says:

        What you are attempting is historical revision in the name of your religion, it is both repugnant & immoral.
        According to Crucifixion in Antiquity, Crucifixion was popular in many countries. The Assyrians, Phoenicians, Persians, Babylonians, Macedonians,Romans, & the Carthagians. The Carthagians apparently learned it from the Egyptians, who crucified people on trees. Genesis 40;19 has long been thought to be referencing crucifixion in Egypt.
        You misrepresent the God Set. yes, he was god of the desert, he was also God of storms, chaos, & violence. But more importantly he was seen as evil. The people of Ancient Egypt saw Set in the same way as Christians see Satan.
        It is clear in Egyptian religious texts that Isis hovered above the phallus of Osiris, & in that way became impregnated with Horus. There was no physical contact, nowhere does it say, or suggest there was. There was no proof, or claim, that Isis was a virgin.
        You clearly have not read the Pyramid texts, the Coffin texts,Book of Going Out, book of Gates, the Amduat. If you had, you would have been aware of the above, & the resurrection of Osiris, by Horus, something which you deny occurred. One of the most well known facts of Ancient Egypt.
        There are many statues, depictions of Isis, seated holding the infant Horus, in the exact same pose as depicted in devotional works of art of Mary, & the infant Jesus.
        In fact there is a picture in a book written by a Dr J Lundy, of Horus raising his father Osiris from the dead. Dr Lundy’s book is Monumental Christianity, he was a Reverend, & devout Christian. He relates how the story of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead, as in the Gospel of St John, is without doubt taken from the story of Horus & Osiris. Osiris’
        resurrection takes place in the city of Any, it is not a coincidence that Bethany, or Bethanu was the place of Lazarus’ resurrection, Beth being the Hebrew word for house, placed in front of Any it becomes Bethany/Bethanu.
        If you read the Pyramid Texts alongside the Gospel of St John, the similarity of the two stories of resurrection is obvious, they are undeniably the same story.
        Did you know that Christian Coptics shouted “Jesus, Horus” as part of a prayer during childbirth.
        It’s ridiculous to claim the people, who had been under the Egyptian Empire, had no knowledge of the religion, Gods of Ancient Egypt. On what do you base this claim, because it’s long been accepted that myths, religions were chiefly spread by the invading armies of antiquity. Egypt is mentioned in the Bible many times. If Exodus is true, & factual, then Moses & the Israelites would have been well educated to the Egyptian culture.
        These similar stories are not of recent invention, as you also claim, Christians, & others have known about this since Christianity was forming. Dr Lundy brought it up in the mid 19th century. Bishop Theodurus attempted to destroy the Temple of Isis, at Philae, he left an inscription boasting of this destruction. Pope Gregory XVI, again aware of the connection, sent an expedition under the guise of archaeologists in 1841, & what was left of any importance was totally destroyed, or stolen & brought to the Vatican.
        As I said before your research was weak, you have misinterpreted facts, omitted facts, & denied what is fact, in an attempt to justify your argument. It is dishonest, & typically apologetic.

        • JONS1973 says:

          There is no evidence at all that the Egyptians practiced anything like crucifixion. Hanging someone from a tree is just not the same thing, and even if it were, there is zero evidence in the historical record that this happened to Horus or any other Egyptian deity.

          I did not misrepresent Set. I was quoting from the Oxford Guide of Egyptian Mythology. The people of ancient Egypt did not see Set as an equivalent of Satan, and how they regarded him depended largely on what period and province you are talking about.

          No one takes Lundy’s scholarship seriously. Like Massey and others from his period, his work is full of historical inaccuracies and speculation, which is why I used only the most recent scholarship in writing the article.

          Your claim about the cities of “Any” and “Bethany” are parallels drawn from English words. In fact, the Hebrew word for house is Bayit, not Beth.

          If you can show me which pyramid texts read exactly like the Gospel of John, I would be happy to read them. All of the pyramid texts I have read are not narratives at all. They are collections of spells.

          No Coptic Christians shout “Jesus Horus” during childbirth. This is straight out of D.M. Murdock’s arguments and it’s silly.

          Finally, I did not say that the Jews of Jesus time had no knowledge of Egyptian religion. What I said is that the Christians of Jesus time would have had little, if any, knowledge of the literally hundreds of variations of the Horus mythology that existed thousands of years prior. I’m sure Moses would have been well educated in Egyptian mythology since he was raised as an Egyptian, but that doesn’t mean he or any other Jew would have passed that on to their children after the Exodus.

          Your claim about Pope Gregory XVI destroying the evidence is a convenient claim for you, but there’s no proof. Anyone can concoct a conspiracy theory based on an absence of evidence.

          The points you keep bringing up are based on outdated scholarship that was speculative to begin with, and has been repeated by hacks like D.M. Murdock and others.

        • T_Girgis says:

          I am a Coptic Christian. I can assure you that we NEVER shout “Jesus Horus” during childbirth prayers. I can’t even imagine how you came up with that.

    • tigerbody says:

      The writer did not mention this exactly for this reason, and will now attempt to cover her behind.

  23. CB says:

    Your only “historical” references to Jesus are those from the Bible. So, you are basing your information all on one source which you cannot prove is true, nor does is it have chronological continuity. Show me other “historical” sources that are able to collaborate and support the Bible and perhaps you will have some ground to stand upon. What’s funny is that your supposed savior’s story is so similar to MULTIPLE other religions. Every large culture had some sort of savior figure. Also, Christianity is a religion based upon Judaism – a religion whose people doesn’t even believe there was a Christ. Nor do they believe in heaven or hell. Christianity supposedly is a religion of peace and forgiveness, yet it has subjugated, murdered, and committed more atrocities than any other group in history.

    • JONS1973 says:

      Whether or not there was a historical Jesus is beside the point. The claim I am refuting in this article is the one that says Jesus and Horus have parallel stories, and they don’t. As far as other historical sources that corroborate the Gospels, I have written about that on my blog several times.

      • tigerbody says:

        PS there are a few other stories from BCE that also parallel this same exact story.
        I don’t have the references on my now …. and a little googling will find them.

  24. baden snaxx says:

    Before I reply in full to what you have written above, I would like to clarify an important issue, & I am sure you will be helpful in answering a question.
    You dismiss the veracity of my claims, saying that my sources aren’t credible.
    You say “Which is why I used the most recent scholarship in writing the article”
    The story of Horus raising Osiris from the dead is well known. Something that you deny. Stating this never happened, which is wrong. It is an important aspect of the Ancient Egyptian religion.
    I cannot imagine why the latest scholarly reports didn’t cover this occurrence, & why they gave you the impression it never happened.
    If so, how credible are these reports?
    I suggest they have no credibility whatsoever.
    Or did they tell you that this happened?

    • JONS1973 says:

      It must not be that important because the pyramid texts that relate the story of Osiris say that he was raised from the dead in a zombie-like state by Isis, at which point she breathes life into Osiris and copulates with him (this is popular in the pyramid texts) or she copulates with a phallus she fashions when she can’t find the real one (this is in Plutarch’s version). There is also a version where Isis may have been impregnated by a bolt of lightning, but the evidence for this is uncertain. It is only after this that Horus is born in most version. But the most popular version has Isis-not Horus-raising Osiris from the dead. I look forward to your response. I’m sure it will be filled with lots of 19th century speculation.

  25. I find many parallels throughout ancient history that relate to not only Jesus and Horus but many are found in the new testament that parallel The War Of The Jews written by Flavius Josephus. In order to understand the truth one has to go outside of the Bible and do extensive research. There is no way the Gospels or any of the new testament were written by common people. The Romans recognized only two classes of people, the royals and the common. The common had no freedom of speech rights, the royals were the only individuals who were allowed to write and publish literature in those times.

    Those who are deceived do not know that they are deceived!

    • JONS1973 says:

      If the deceived don’t know they are deceived, then how do you know you are not the one who is deceived? Most of what comprises the New Testament was written around the time of Josephus, so the existence of parallels (depending on what you mean by that) is not really surprising.

  26. BASE121824 says:

    This thread has been interesting reading. A microcosm of life really. Back and forth. Tit for tat. I’m right, you’re wrong. I believe religion is slavery. I’d like to think that one day the human race will do what is right and think the notion of god out of existence. However, I’m not that naive. I truly pity those who use so much of their time, resources and effort into defending their faith. Come now. If there really was some Devine power who was capable of creating in one week, what we know has taken billions of years, do you think the world would be like it is today? Greed, envy and an overwhelming lust for power. That is what rules us whether we like it or not.

    • JONS1973 says:

      Like most Catholics (including Pope Benedict XVI), I don’t believe in an absolutely literal interpretation of the creation account in Genesis. In fact, even the earliest Christians did not insist on a literal interpretation. My colleague Jimmy Akin has a great article about this at catholic.com that you can read at the following link:

      http://www.catholic.com/tracts/creation-and-genesis

      Personally, I believe “thinking the notion of God out of existence” would have disastrous effects.

  27. BASE121924 says:

    Disasterous effects? Wouldn’t you agree we’ve seen more than enough disaster that has been caused by peoples insistance on god existing?

    • JONS1973 says:

      We’ve seen more disaster from people insisting that he doesn’t.

    • james says:

      i would say that rmoving religion would be a good idea…. but removing man’s faith in a higher power, (God) would totally be disasterous….. i believe in God, but i have no use for religious ritual or constant bickering over who has interpretted the bible correctly. I put alot of stock in the bible as a historical record AND a poetic vision of metaphor and symbology…. the trick is sifting through which is which. in any case the bible does not stand qalone as a guide for good moral living. in western society however, it is the most popular and readily available source, and a very good one. in history it is true that many horrible and terrible things have been done in the name of chrisianty. Jesus (whether a real person or mythological figure) did say you can tell a good tree if it produces good fruit. you can’t discount the power of belief in God simply because some HUMAN BEINGS have twisted the words for evil gains. Men do this often and not just through chistianity. as for the argument as to whether or not the jesus story borrowed or even flat out copied the horus story, i say who cares???? Jesus taught good moraql living for humans. If a person is intelligent they will see through dogmatic teachings of clergymen and see that Jesus (regardless if real or make believe) taught a VERY simple way to live in peace and be happy in our lives……. love God above all things and love your neighbor as you love yourself…. simple and to the point. i would really be sad if mankind lost touch with that…

  28. KMRIA says:

    Very clearly written response to what is obviously a very populistic attempt at deconstructing the story of christ. I have only two problems with this, and they are serious ones: 1) If you want to be irrefutable, please include the adequate scientific quotations. 2) While it is never implied in this article, many of the comments suggest, that this “Debunking of the Jesus-Horus connection” is widely seen as proof for the authenticity of the story of J.C. as set forth in the bible. That is simply not true. I believe that (pun intended) there is no virgin birth in storytelling and that all myths share similar psycho-social background (Joseph Campbell did a lot on this), so it is not unthinkable that bits and pieces of egyptian, mesopotamian and arab mythology sneaked into the creative process of writing the bible – to believe it word for word is at least as ridiculous as saying the story of JC is a plagiarism of the Horus myth. But maybe it would have been different without those bits and pieces of successful storytelling that permeated the cultural fabric back then.

    • JONS1973 says:

      I quoted a number of different sources in the article, all of which were the most recent scholarship I could find at the time. I never implied that the debunking of one story is proof of the other. I’ve written about that elsewhere on this blog.

      • KMRIA says:

        well, so you did. But all of those sources (correct me if i’m wrong) supporting your debunking are standard works on egyptian mythology concerning horus and not a possible connection. And the only ones addressing the parallels between egyptian and christian mythology are the ones claiming that there indeed was a connection. Pointing out discrepancies between the horus and the jesus myths doesn’t debunk the possibility that there indeed was a transfer of storytelling between egyptian and christian narration. But hey, maybe you’re the first naming the discrepancies coherently. If so, good for you. But i’m pretty sure there are historical studies concerning the influence of egyptian mythology on early christian storytelling. This however was not my major remark. While you indeed do not imply that debunking one story proofs the other, one should be aware that every text has a certain effect on it’s reader. And judging from the comments to your (well written and respectable, don’t get me wrong i’m not bashing your logic here) text had this effect. It’s a fascinating topic. I’ll try to educate myself on a possible transition of egyptian iconography to christian tradition. It would make sense due to the geographical and historical proximity. After all ancient egyptian beliefs persisted well into the third or even fourth century AD (Frankfurter, 1998, Religion in Roman Egypt: Assimilation and Resistance)

        • KMRIA says:

          Jesus Christ! And here I was thinking I’m having a rational discussion… You directed my attention to other posts in your blog, some of which i now read. Shouldn’t have done that. On gay marriage: “It’s a distortion of an institution spurred on by a large segment of society that has relegated God to the fringes.” – that’s like saying democracy is a distortion of the mesopotamian governmental system. Ever heard of evolution and progress? After reading more (standard muslim bashing, pro life babbling that sounds like abortion supporters would try to prohibit christians from carrying out unwanted pregnancies and the usual “atheism is a belief too”-hypothesis), can’t say that I’m anything but disgusted. To quote G.B.Shaw “No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means.”

          • JONS1973 says:

            So my opinion of gay “marriage” makes me automatically wrong about the subject at hand? That’s rational. :)

          • KMRIA says:

            “So my opinion of gay “marriage” makes me automatically wrong about the subject at hand? That’s rational. :)” —- Oh come on mate, I never said that! I just wanted to express my disgust. And it doesn’t necessary make you wrong, although, when I think about it… would you trust someone with investing your life savings in volatile markets when you find out he cannot add 2+2? Credibility is a bitch. Just out of curiosity: Did you just close the thread, so I wouldn’t respond?

          • JONS1973 says:

            No, I didn’t close the thread. I have to say though, you are the master of weak analogies. If an investor can’t add, well that’s crucial to the investment. The two things are related. My opinion on marriage has nothing to do with whether the Jesus and Horus stories have parallels. I cited my sources, all of which are the most recent scholarship on the subject, and you referenced Archarya S, who is a laughing stock, even in atheist circles. Who loses credibility?

          • KMRIA says:

            Indeed you didn’t close it. Appeared so in my browser. Sorry for that. I guess i just lost a little computer credibility here — but please enlighten me, where did I reference Archarya S? I was only aware of a D. Frankfurter and a G.B.Shaw reference. — and I agree, my stock market analogy wasn’t the most inspired one, it was only meant to illustrate how fundamentally self-evident the acceptance of gay marriage is for me, just like adding 2+2.

          • JONS1973 says:

            Sorry. That was a different commenter. My apologies. I answer so many comments at this blog and others that I lose track sometimes. You and I have different views on marriage, but I would not hold that against you in this conversation. If you do want to debate the marriage issue with me, I’m happy to. Just not here. I like to keep the comment section as “on topic” as possible.

          • KMRIA says:

            Look, in principle I agree. I’m not happy with the kind of nitpicking I engaged in here. And I might have done so with less clarity than I wanted to, after all english is not my first language. But, with all due respect, some of your views are so incredibly offensive to me, that I don’t think we have enough common ground to discuss much. I am to blame though, I have posted on your wall, not the other way around. If I may, I would like to ask you one think regarding the horus-jesus debate: While I agree that the way this theory is presented by many hardcore atheists is very populist and flashy, it highlights an interesting fact – the interdependence of mythologies. You try to debunk it fully and totally (basically ridicule it, as if there was not on iota of truth in there – again, no judgment here, sorry if the wording seems harsh), on account of discrepancies between the stories. My question now is this: Do you believe in the biblical dogma of christ, and is the possibility of the gospel borrowing from other mythology offensive to you? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to question your faith, I’ll probably even end the discussion right here, I’m just interested why this seems such a passionate subject to you. And why you consider the possibility of ancient egyptian stories influencing the story of christ so completely unthinkable… Or did I get you wrong here?

          • JONS1973 says:

            I could not fathom not talking to someone because they disagree with me on something. Even if I find their point of view offensive. But whatever.

            As far as your question goes; I used to believe all of the pagan/Jesus connections until I started to investigate them myself. The vast majority of credible parallels do not occur until after the advent of Christianity. The others, like having ritual meals, using water in religious services, or the occurrence of similar imagery (like the Madonna and child motif) can all be explained by the fact that we live in a closed system. These things are universally important because we are all born of mothers, we all need water and sunlight to survive, and we social creatures all gather to eat. And people from all parts of the world do theses things. It doesn’t mean that all cultures borrowed these ideas from some earlier one. These things more likely developed out of necessity.

            I believe Jesus is who he said he is based on the evidence. You may look at the same evidence and disagree (which is your prerogative), but I believe the story handed down to us is true. Unlike pagan gods, most of who were not believed to have existed in the physical realm, the story of Christ depends on it’s historicity because, as St. Paul wrote, “If Christ was not raised from the dead, then our faith is in vain.” I have lived on both sides of the fence, and I chose the side that I believe best explains the evidence.

            By the way, your English is very good for it being your second language. I am impressed. I am also saddened that you find my views so offensive that you won’t speak with me anymore, but such is life. God bless.

  29. R. Driggers says:

    Wow. Where do you start on this tortured logic? Horus is one of many, many Christ-stories with identical motifs. What I find the most laughable among your arguments is the so-called “speculation” you accuse of researchers on the Horus – Jesus subject. Speculation? Speculate is what the New Testament IS. It’s pure fiction. Arriving on the scene some 136 years or so “A.D.” That’s in quotes because not even they “Christian Fathers” could nail that down.

    What is a real riot is how Christians were literally laughed at by the early “Pagan” religious peoples. They knew that Jesus never existed and that the whole story was stolen from Krishna (or Christna), Buddha, Dionysus, Mithra, Hercules, etc. etc. Early Christians (and apparently some today) actually preferred ignorant people to participate – learned men were not welcome. There is not credible evidence that Jesus existed and the authors of the New Testament never knew, saw, or “traveled about” with Jesus. Sort of an important thing wouldn’t you think? That’s like me writing a biography on George Washington and saying I speak FOR him with the literal word.

    I’m not here to steal work…..I learned what I learned from a book called “The Christ Conspiracy” by Acharya S where the research is impeccably done and the myth of Jesus laid bare. Take a look at that. It feels like it’s been avoided by name on purpose…….

    • JONS1973 says:

      Attacking the New Testament doesn’t prove your point, sir. Archarya S’s scholarship is not taken seriously by other mythicists. The reason for this is because, as I pointed out in my article, she relies heavily on outdated scholarship that is now known to be either speculative, or outright false.

      • R. Driggers says:

        You should challenge the person making the claim to produce a primary source or a statement from a scholarly secondary source that has a footnote that can be checked. Then make sure the sources being quoted come from scholars with a Ph.D. in a relevant field, such as a person who teaches Egyptology at the university level.

        Boy I suppose the same kind of credibility should be demanded as relates to New Testament and all the early writings of the “Christian Fathers” huh?

        Are you ready to take the Pepsi challenge on the veracity and validity of the early works of fiction penned over 100 years after the death of the supposed Jesus Christ?

        And simply stating someone was around during the infancy of a field of research does not invalidate what they say. You might as well have said “liar, liar, pants-on-fire” it is supported about as much as your claims.

        Egyptology? Wow, how scientific these guys are. These are the same assholes who say that the Great Pyramid in Giza was built in 20 years by a bunch of slaves. When asked how one answer (from a French Egyptology professor) was “why because it was the will of the Gods”. Of course how silly of me Prof…….I should have known that the impossible can magically be accomplished with pure Egyptian Pride. Sure thing…..I doubt I’d be using the Egyptology field of study to support my claims.

        You want to go fact-for-fact on this subject? Like I quote the fine lady and you tell me how what she states is wrong?She’s got some compelling stuff in that book and quite a bit of it from the Christians themselves. The early Gnostic that were later detracted as heretics had some spirited arguments about the existence of J.C. that I’m fairly certain the Church would have just as soon seen gone as have to deal with them now.

  30. Lucid Images says:

    Wow, you went all the way to Wikipedia to validate your beliefs. Exemplary research!

  31. sam says:

    If there be no god….then christ or horus is a mute point, a waste of time. With that said, this is what should be being debated if one chooses to do so. Who…. is god? In cathologism as a child, the catholic catechism’s answer to that was ” God is the supreme being who made all things and keeps them in exsistance” circa 1953 till…. ?

    A simple to understand answer for a gullable nieve child of 6. From that came my 6 year old question after pondering this supreme being…..WHAT IS THIS BEING MADE OF? Those priest teaching nor nun’s ever gave me an acceptable answer, can you?

    • JONS1973 says:

      Catholics believe God is pure spirit, in other words, he’s not made up of anything in the material sense. And since we are confined to a material universe, none of us will be privy to that info until after death. If that does not satisfy you, then I suppose you’ll just have to wait and see which one of us is right. I hope you find the answers you’re looking for, brother. God bless.

      • sam says:

        Thank you for responding, but no i still believe even pure non gmo gluten free fda certified organic “Spirit” has to have some kind of substance – wether or not we know or can perceive it or not. Think of it this way, if god has a mind, emotions, etc., then this pure spirit must be made of something? Just because we are limited to our senses and perceptions, does not mean we can’t postulate the notion that this pure spirit is some kind of material? In fact to think that something as immense as god exist, one would have to conclude that for all he claims to be and do, it would be necessary for him to be something tangible, even if we can’t understand what the spirit is. Since i do not believe in an afterlife……. no, I will not know someday, thus my asking now.

        Thanks again.

        • JONS1973 says:

          I didn’t say God had no substance, if you mean it in the philosophical sense. I’m saying he’s not made of material. Material is part of creation. God is not created, he is the creator. I said we are limited in our understanding of the spiritual world because we are confined to the material world. It is this limitation that makes it difficult to grasp the idea that there is more to existence than just the material world. What you are saying about God needing to be made of material in order to perform any actions is evidence of my point.

          • sam says:

            The spiritual world “is” just “unknown material”, because we can’t sense other than what we can sense, does not mean it does not exist! If emotions, morals, intelligence, common sense, etc exsist in this dimension, and your god has these things he bestowed on his creation, namely us, then he has a mind, whether its’ a “spiritual mind” or not! Whether it’s made of fleshy matter and electrical units, nerons that fire etc., and his is higher than that, is of little import to me, “spiritual substance” (non-matter) as we understand matter, and conclude he is not of this substance, does not negate the fact that he is spiritually “”something”” since it is impossible to be nothing and yet exist in any way!

            Since you and millions of others believe that god had no begining or has no end, that he is “eternal” yet in many ways acts like his creation (us), yet has no 3 dimensional matter, being pure spirit, means nothing if “pure” and “spirit” do nothing more than make a statement – at least to me that – your god exist and it has some ” substance” we can not know in our present form, yet none the less it is “something”! Correct?

        • Chesire Cat says:

          God cannot be described as being made of a particular material for several reasons. First, He is neither “made”, nor created. Second, materials are all elements of the physical universe, which was created by God, and therefore it is incoherent to suppose that He is contingent upon material for existence, when all materials are contingent upon Him for their existence. Third, to say that He is “made” of some material would be to say that He is NOT made of all other materials, which would introduce complexity to what must, by definition, be absolutely simple (being piure act). Fourth, anything that is “made” of something is “made” of a finite quatity of that material. Since God is infinite,  He cannot be “made” of any material. 

           

          • sam says:

            Yes Chesire, any material that we can comprehend, which is a microscopic amount! But as i replied above, before i scrolled down to see your reply, “nothing” can’t exist! So your god can’t be nothing, therefore he has to have substance, otherwise he could not do anything including creating-correct?

        • Jene Quinn says:

          Wouldn’t god be like us since we were made in his image and likeness? Genesis 1:26-27, “Then God said, ‘Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness’ … So God created man in His own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” Maybe god is a hermaphrodite? Interesting use of the word Our, doesn’t that refer to more than one?

          • JONS1973 says:

            Some scholars think the “our” in that passage is an example of a ” royal we” (look that up). Others think it’s evidence of the holy trinity. And some think it’s there because Jewish monotheism was not fully developed at the time of this writing. As a Christian, I tend to favor the Trinity argument, but I don’t know for sure. The other reasons are possible, too. Hope that helps.

  32. DroB4Hos says:

    You’re right. Both mythological characters aren’t the same. However, they are both asked versions of am even older character in Sumerian mythology, the god Tammuz, frequently called the only-begotten son or the anointed one. All trinities are parallels to the oldest known recorded trinity.

    • JONS1973 says:

      Ralph Woodrow completely destroys that myth in his book “The Babylon Connection?” You can buy a copy on amazon for a few dollars. I recommend checking it out.

  33. cristina says:

    Horus is a mith, whereas Jesus exist. He was born for humanity’s saviour.

  34. Chesire Cat says:

    I have to say that I am genuinely stunned at the incapacity of some readers to grasp the fact that the questions of whether or not Jesus exists/existed, whether or not he is divine, and whether or not the Bible is a reliable text are in any way relevant to the question of whether or not specific claims about commonalities exist between stories of Horus, and Jesus. It is truly ironic that outspoken advocates of reason should be so ill trained in logic as to be incapable of spotting a non-sequitor, or realizing its weakness as a basis for an argument when pointed out to them…repeatedly.

    To quote C.S. Lewis, “Bless me, what do they teach them at these schools?”

  35. slt1984 says:

    Written by a true bible basher, you can disprove the horus connection all you like but there Is several religions out there with a uncanny resemblance to Christianity all older than the Christian religion. The truth of the matter is you put your faith in a book that was written hundreds of years after the event and you believe it’s the word of the Lord when the fact is the bible is not only filled with inaccuracies but also probably one of the biggest contradictions in history. I have did I mention also their has been more violence and blood shed in the
    the name of Christianity than any other religion been recorded in history. Yer so to some it up you defend a religion that’s violent, has no real evidence to support it and then have the cheek to slam other religions that contradict it you people are a true example of idiocy minds that are frightened to think for themselves

    • JONS1973 says:

      That’s all mudslinging without any substance. If you want to get down to specifics, then let’s do it. Also, the idea that there has been more violence in the name of Christianity than any other religion is patently false. I’ve adressed that here on this blog. Furthermore, I am a convert to Christianty from atheism. I was thinking for myself based on the evidence when I made that decision.

    • dan says:

      Your claim of the bible written hundreds of years after is false. There is evidence to the New
      Testament written between 55a.d.- 135a.d. When claiming the violence and bloodshed
      committed in the name of religion your talking of false, manmade religions. True
      Christians gather not in manmade temples and absolutely follow the peaceful teachings of
      Jesus Christ. I wish the energy spent to dispute bible truth could be channeled into reading
      the book to find there is no equivalent writing to teaching love, morals or peace on this
      earth. Nothing comes close. “The fool has said in his heart, ‘There is no God’ ” Ps.14.1
      So before you slander true Christians as being idiots that can’t think for themselves, you
      just might want to self-evaluate your standing with Your Creator and where you’ve found
      your misinformation.

  36. I’m just baffled that anyone would believe these claims about Horus. If I were going to make something up, I wouldn’t be so obvious with the comparisons. All of the claims are ripped off from what everyone knows about Jesus, taking advantage of the fact that most people have no idea who Horus was. No one who knows even the slightest, basic knowledge about ancient Egyptian mythology would take these claims seriously.

  37. slt1984 says:

    Have you seen god? Have you felt him? I have, I have felt it every day, he lights my days, it’s called the sun because that’s all your worshipping and that’s were almost all religion stems from, astrology and that is research I have done for years. I’m I going to explain my research on here? no. Why? Because it does not matter how much research I present people will always find a contradiction. hence people who are blind to facts are idiots. And as for mud slinging I do believe that is what this entire article is about, Christians/Catholics yet again slating something because it contradicts there faith. Do I believe jesus christ was real? Yes Joshua was real, he was a revolutionary who tried to save his people from the roman empire that does not make him the son of god it made him a pissed off man who was sick of oppression in fact he fought for the exact opposite of what your churches stand for and if you have read your hustory and you are stupid enough to question what I mean in this last sentence then I really am talking to someone who hasn’t got the mind to think for themselves. oh and also who in the right mind would put faith on a book that was written from the descendants of the men that murdered their saviour .VERY CLEVER.

  38. slt1984 says:

    You also said that my comment on Christianity is false, so I am asking you to clarify for me which is the most violent religion because apparently research does not apply here. I suggest you do your research before answering this.

  39. Sean says:

    Those Egyptian gods are just fantastical metaphors, they can’t even get their story straight! Belief in the Son of the Christian God is much more rational, especially because it was written down by people that knew the story of His life so well, not even that long after he died. Jesus’ legacy is completely original and His biblical persona wasn’t embellished or influenced by any religious figures from non-Christian belief systems which circulated during His lifetime.

  40. slt1984 says:

    Yet again what, over 2 million people in the crusades not to mention the iris and Scottish that were slaughtered for not converting the Witch trials and so on. Do I believe in the horus connection tests because it’s so late true!!!!! NOT! If you have done your research you would realise why the date of the 25th of December is so Important but you obviously haven’t, it’s the date of the winter solstice which was so significant to the ancients and you will find that many religions changed the dates of there saviours/diety/demi gods births to this date and also researching this will explain why it was important why many religions changed so they were also born to a Virgin including yours ( if you really must know ” jesus/Joshua was born the first months of the summer not December) so all of these stories are BS including yours. look the top and bottom of why I have waisted my time on commenting on this website is what gives you the right to contradict any religion when there is little to no proof that yours was real either and you could ask me the same question but it would be a moot point because you did put the story up and you knew it would invite debate. It does not matter if either story is real or not everyone is entitled to there own belief and their freedom to choose for themselves, I really can’t understand how someone who claims to have that much faith in there religion would feel to need to waist their time trying to disprove another, as I said before neither can be proved stop trying to convert people who don’t want to be converted and face the fact that your religion among many others are slowly dying out because informed people don’t want to know anymore. people who were known as devout are now now as fanatics and extremists look to the future instead of been stuck 2 thousand years in the past

    • JONS1973 says:

      I guess you’re not going to bother reading the link I posted. I answered most of the nonsense you have written already.

      December 25 is not the winter solstice. The solstice is from the 21st to the 23rd, and the only mention we have of pagans celebrating the birth of one of their gods on that day is in the Chronology of 354 (an ancient Roman calendar). Coincidentally, the calendar has Christmas already being celebrated on it as well. In fact, we have quotes from Church Fathers like Hypolytus who tell us that December 25 was of significance for Christians and the birth of Christ some 200 years before. So if we can glean anything from the historical data, it would not be that Christians “stole” December 25 from the pagans. In fact, it appears to have worked the other way around. I wrote more on this (not that you’re actually going to read it, since you haven’t read anything else): http://www.jonsorensen.net/2011/12/13/christmas-saturnalia-or-sol-invictus/

    • Greg says:

      Anger and frustration always favor the defeated. How can man convert the un-convertable? You chose your path, now go.

  41. investigatingeverything says:

    Well done. Now let’s see you refute the statues dedicated to “Yahweh and his Asherah” (or try to sidestep it by refuting the massive amounts of unquestionable evidence regarding Yahweh as the ancient Israelite name for God and the geographical evidence indicating that at least one statue was found within Israel). I’d also appreciate you not sidestepping it with the “Israel turned from God to worship pagan idols at certain periods” argument when evidence indicates that exclusive monotheism did not take root among the ancient Israelites until a couple of centuries before the arrival of Jesus. Asherah was not worshipped due to the Israelites forsaking God; Asherah was worshipped as a remnant of the pagan Semitic religions that were the sisters and mothers of early Judaism.

    I’d be interested to see your refutations regarding the undeniable linguistic connections between the various Semitic words for God, including the Hebrew-Aramaic “el,” “eloh” or “eli” and the modern Arabic “allah” (or the countless similarities between Biblical and other Aramaic-Semitic accounts, including Sumerian, Akkadian, Hittite, Ugaritic, Phoenician, Amorite, Proto-Sinaitic and, yes, Caananite mythologies, particularly the Genesis creation account). This, of course, despite the fact that several of these Semitic traditions are proven by archaeological evidence to predate the Judeo-Semitic belief system. This would, of course, necessitate reference to and subsequent refutation of Hebrew worship of the gods El-Elyon (who could be argued to be Yahweh, but who was referenced in other Semitic tablets), El Shadai and El Olam (who have been argued both to represent one single “El” and to be distinct gods), the possibility of Yahweh being archetypally linked to Hadad (Baal), and references to Yahweh, including Transjordan and Egyptian, that predate any biblical writings by at least 100 years. I’d appreciate if you could explain Psalm 82:1, too- “Elohim stands in the council of El, He judges among the Elohim (gods).” While you’re at it, maybe explain how Elyon, described in Deuteronomy 32:8 as dividing mankind according to the number of the sons of God (the seventy nations of Genesis 10) bears no morphological connection to the Ugaritic El and his seventy sons.

    There is extensive overlap between early Semitic religious mythologies that makes it very difficult to believe that the Judeo-Semitic tradition is the nugget of truth out of the sea of religions from which it derived. Please do conclusively refute the chronology of Yahwism taking root and excluding all gods in the ancient pantheon, as well as the Kenite hypothesis.

    Or can you explain how Judeo-Christianity–which you probably claim to go back only 6,000 years when humans were created because to claim otherwise would require you to acknowledge the connections between Israelite and Sumerian mythology–is more historically veracious and legitimate than religions that are documented to predate Christianity, such as Hinduism, for which there exists archaeological proof that human beings were alive and practicing it for several thousand years before the Bible accounts are supposed to have happened?

    Oh, and let’s discuss the Shasu.

    • JONS1973 says:

      I’m not a young earth creationist, sir, and I’m not bothered by the etymology of the word “God.” In fact, nothing in your uber-long comment has anything at all to do with supposed similarities between Jesus and Horus, which is what this article is about. I am also aware that monotheism was not universally accepted by the ancient Jews. This is obvious even in the Old Testament. Not sure why you think that would bother me, though.

      • investigatingeverything says:

        Simply introducing some new topics for thought, since you since to be in the business of debunking things that conflict with Christian theology. Interested, now, to hear your views on these issues and how you reconcile Judaism being descended from other ancient religions with your Christian faith, and how that interacts with your belief in a literal Jesus and your intellectual and spiritual rejection of any Jesus-myth-evolution theories (((earnest)))

        To be honest, I find debate quite fascinating and invigorating, and when I saw the lively conversations you were having with other commentors about the topic and the way you engaged with them point-for-point in the spirit of intellectual discourse, and saw that your site seems to be based primarily on applying critical thinking and citing sources, I guess I just jumped right in.

        I didn’t mean to imply only that monotheism was simply not universally accepted by the ancient Jews, as though they ‘deviated’ from their ‘original’ God-given monotheism (I thought I addressed that but I’m honestly never very clear when I try to communicate). I was trying to point out that much evidence suggests that monotheism didn’t even catch on *at all* until later centuries, lending weight to the historical idea of Judaism descending from related religions. For instance, the fact that the Bible record doesn’t seem to have sorted out exactly who ‘El’ and ‘Yahweh’ are or how many gods there are for quite a length. The etymology I mentioned because it indicates that the Judeo-Semitic concept of ‘El,’ or God, is directly descended from an earlier conception of a god named El.

        Just to note, not all those who believe in humanity’s existence for a mere 6,000 years are young earth creationists – there are those who believe that humans are simply very recent additions to the earth’s millions-of-years record. Christianity is as varied as the shades of the color spectrum, and I made what seems to be an erroneous assumption.

        Not sure why you assume I’m a man, though.

        P.S. I’m not concise – “uber-long” is my trademark because of a cognitive disability. Oops, this comment was supposed to be short.

    • Rob says:

      I concur with investigateverything. I recent refreshed my reading on ancient Sumer and Babylon and it seems obvious that the Semitic tribes (Akkadians) absorbed Sumerian culture, language and beliefs even though they had successfully invaded that territory. It would be foolish to argue with facts like the epic of Gilgamesh which pre-dates the Semitic invasions in clay tablets by 1500 years. It’s obvious where the source of the christian mythology comes from….

    • You Are says:

      Dude…just go to this crazy site
      https://illuminatimatrix.wordpress.com/

  42. Anirban says:

    I think you made a very good case investigatingeverything, there are things which are inherited in every religion from the beliefs of the time. Also Christianity would not be an exception. Some of the answers to what you ask are not known to even theologians, as these are elements of research as yet. I think though the points raised are valid…

  43. […] It isn't. And the vast majority of legitimate scholars have dropped these trumped up comparisons. Interesting how folks like yourself are skeptical of the historical reliability of the bible, but you'll read somehting on a webiste that says something about Osiris, Horus and Mithra and you will accept it without questions as infallible. Again, I'm skeptical of your skepticism. These are objections on the level of the village atheist and are rooted in poor scholarship, much of which is entirely made up. Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus Connection – jonsorensen.net […]

  44. dona deri says:

    What about the stories of Krishna, mithra, Buddha? Do they debunk the parallels of Yawh as well?

  45. Sanity 777 says:

    I am very interested in learning about the connection with Jesus and horus. i Just want the truth and i will follow your advice by asking about where you got your info. if its on the page i cant find it. Thank you very much

    • JONS1973 says:

      My sources are all cited in the article.

      • deldingoe says:

        You know what, I have very strong thoughts, feelings, beliefs and knowledge to offer on this subject but I just remembered something (besides the fact that my thoughts and feelings are none of anyone’s business, as your’s shouldn’t have to be mine)… Seriously people, turn off your computer and go and hug your loved ones. The truth is not a popularity contest.

        To the writer of this article… Wow. People like you were put here by god… to test the patience of the genuine truth seeker. Me and the Goddess get along just fine without fictional characters, and I hope you find union with her/him/it one day. But that’s your personal business… Just some constructive criticism here; Your sources are too few to be constantly replying “My sources are all cited in the article” Oxford isn’t nearly as credible as you may assume anyway – they’re just one of the most “official” sources. The official story about how the pyramids were built or how the twin towers collapsed are not believed by most adults with at least two active brain cells on duty. Plus you hypocritically accuse others of presenting outdated and speculative resources, which is to a large degree a matter of opinion. And I’m sure you appreciate that much of the world today regards the King James Bible, another “official” source, as both outdated and often propagandist. You seem to be intelligent enough so be real with yourself and the rest of us seeking truth. It’s great to have beliefs, but I don’t think it a great idea that belief dictate to knowledge, and that is the impression you are giving from time to time. I guess the people driven by blind faith who make statements on here to the effect of “Jesus is the one true god or saviour, there are no others” are not doing you any favours, whether you believe this or not.

        And for the record Yeshua was a mortal man of great importance to his people, though, not of any sort of divine origin. Horus was always an allegory pertaining to the divine, a story fed to the masses for purpose of control. The new testament account of Jesus is a mix of preceding mythologies attributed to the living man, Yeshua. The gospels repetition into the collective psyche for over 1600 years has had the same effect of controlling the masses and the world is currently looking for a second coming or brand new salesman altogether… My reference for this… hahaha don’t have one, though, I’m positive I could search the web for an hour or so and find others that believe this and reference them. Some of those people may even call themselves professors but most will be people like you and I wasting our lives discussing the relatively inconsequential desperately attempting to convert belief to knowledge for ourselves and others to consume.

        We must appreciate that only what we know and understand can give us basis for belief in that which is unknown and yet to be understood – I think we can all agree on this? I think.

        Peace. Be well.

        • JONS1973 says:

          Lol. You said your thoughts and opinions are no ones business, but then you write a giant tome of your opinions here in the comment section. Good stuff.

        • Silver Tate says:

          Yes, Jesus was important, because he was a Jewish king of Syria. But his name was not Aramaic, it was Egypto-Persian. The ‘two’ characters from history are:

          Biblical — (king) Jesus Em Manuel of Judaea.
          Historical – King Izas Manu of Judaea and Syria.

          In addition, King Izas Manu wore a ceremonial Crown of Thorns, as his coinage demonstrates. See Jesus King of Edessa.

          R

          • JONS1973 says:

            The Agbar legend originates around the third or fourth century. A little too late to be a precursor of Christianity. Thanks for the input, though.

          • Ralph Ellis says:

            It matters not when the legend originated.

            The fact of the matter is that King Izas Manu of Judaea and Edessa is a real historical character. He was a Nazarene Jew who led the Jewish Revolt, but was captured by the Romans. They crucified him in the Kidron Valley alongside two others, but they were taken down by Josephus. Two of them died, while one survived.

            Familiar story? Yes, of course, but this is real history as narrated by Josephus Flavius. (See ‘Life’ by Josephus Flavius.) So yes, the gospels are historically accurate, as long as you are prepared to accept that Jesus was a real king. But since that is what the gospels tell us, I don’t see a problem with this. (See also ‘Jesus, King of Edessa’.)

            R

          • JONS1973 says:

            It does matter when the legend originated. In order to make the story fit as neatly as you have here requires adding a fourth century legend to a first century writing. I can recreate anyone’s story ( including your own) by extracting bits and pieces of stories from other people’s lives. That’s essentially what you’re doing here. And Josephus does mention Jesus, the one the Christians began following in the first century. I’ve blogged on this twice here:

            http://www.jonsorensen.net/2014/03/14/is-this-mention-of-jesus-a-forgery/

            http://www.jonsorensen.net/2014/07/02/responding-critics-blog-josephus/

          • ralfellis says:

            You have (unintentionally) conceded a few points here.

            a. If the Jesus ‘myth’ is based upon the real history of King Izas Manu VI of Edessa, then we now know the true basis of the entire gospel story. But is the gospel story based on a ‘few snippets’ of King Izas Manu’s life, or based upon his entire life? If the latter, then KingJesus IS King Izas Manu of Edessa. It matters not if his life-story has been hijacked or not – it is still his life-story.

            b. As I mentioned below, The Testamonium Flavium is the worst interpolation (by Eusebius) that was ever fabricated. And the James interpolation is just as bad – if you take it out, the text flows on uninterrupted.

            c. But what is much more interesting than the The Testamonium Flavium is the zero Testamonium Edessum (as it were). Josephus writes about everyone in the 1st century, but he never mentions Edessa or the Edessan monarchy once. Is that not strange? And this is despite the fact that (according to Syriac historians) the Edessans fought Herod Antipas over the John the Baptist affair, and the Edessans led the Jewish Revolt. And yet Josephus never mentions them?
            So why has Josephus wiped the Edessan royal family from history? Ah, yes, because he knew that they were closely connected with the gospel story. – and he did not want real history conflicting with the gospel story he had personally crafted. (Yes, Josephus’ fingerprints are all over the gospels, especially Luke and Acts.)

            Tate

          • JONS1973 says:

            I answered the points about Josephus. The majority of scholars belive only a few sentences are interpolations. The argument about flow is useless ( that’s why most scholars don’t use it). It’s common in ancient writings for authors to go off on tangents. In fact, Josephus does it quite often in His writing.

            The claim that Josephus is the mastermind behind the Gospels is pure rubbish.

    • Truth seeker says:

      It’s not just Horus , here 10 Christ like figures before Christ. http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/

      Like I said they’re all so similar because it’s a personification of what human culture learned from the sky.

  46. Kevin says:

    I think i’m more impressed with your responses in thee comments thread than the article :) Good job staying on point and ignoring the rather incessant ad hominem attacks.

  47. OneOfTheThinkers says:

    Although I think this is a worthwhile article, the author is not without his own bias that comes through. Maybe Horus mother wasn’t a virgin (I don’t know), BUT one thing for sure is that a dead guy who is resurrected and given a golden penis because his real one was eaten by a catfish can NOT impregnate a woman whether she is a virgin or not. Therefore, this was still a “magic” birth without intercourse. So the two pregnancies really do have a major similarity, which the author did not care to point out.

    • JONS1973 says:

      I didn’t need to point it out because it’s not similar. saying they are similar because they involve “magic” is far too broad. Does that mean all magic is similar to the Virginia birth? This is exactly why I don’t buy the mythicist arguments anymore (I used to be a mythicist).

  48. Right, the book of the dead is just a collection of books, unlike “The Bible’ which is a collection of books created collectivised and bound by ‘God’ right? And the Jews who created what Christianity was derived from and came from Egypt would have had no way of knowing about Ebyptian culture.

    • JONS1973 says:

      The point is that there is no single canonical book of the dead the way Maher and others make it sound. There are many, and they are all different. They contain spells for the afterlife, not detailed descriptions of the stories of Egytptian gods. As far as the Jews being influenced by Egyptian culture, I’m not arguing against that. What I said is that they would have had no way of knowing every single story about horus that ever existed. The Egyptians themselves didn’t even know this because things get forgotten or buried over time. This is not without precedent. They forgot how to read their own hieroglyphs until the French came along and discovered the Rosetta Stone.

  49. tersivwz says:

    Reality is a hoax.

  50. tersivwz says:

    What are the explanations for the other god figures mentioned in zeitgeist? I’m asking earnestly because I’m assuming they’re also bunk.

    • JONS1973 says:

      Zeitgeist is hilarious. And it’s bunk. There are good refutations of it online. Trent Horn from Catholic Answers also has a bonus section on his DVD “Why Believe in Jesus?” That debunks those claims.

  51. ryezuul says:

    Good article, but as a minor point, the bible has no eyewitness accounts of Jesus being crucified. All the gospels were written much later than the purported events (decades and outside living memory) and contain errors in regard to local geography and similar. The gospels aren’t even sure what Jesus’ last words were and are subject to copying from each other whole cloth (the synoptic problem).

    Now, it’s likely that Jesus was crucified, just erroneous to treat the gospels or Paul as eyewitnesses.

    • JONS1973 says:

      I don’t agree with the late date assessment. All of the Gospels were written within the first century, placing them well within living memory oft he events they describe.

    • Silver Tate says:

      Actually, there is. Josephus Flavius says that the three leaders of the Jewish Revolt were crucified. But they were saved by Joseph(us) and taken down. Two died, while one survived. And the name of this victim of Roman crucifixion – is was King Izas.

      Does this sould familiar? Yes, because this was the biblical crucifixion. Please see the book King Jesus, or Jesus, King of Edessa.

  52. Kris says:

    In Art History there is no direct mention in the studies we took of Jesus having any direct history with the dynasty at the time.day it is possible to not only read hieroglyphics, but also the ancient cuneiform writings. Astoundingly, the ancient relics have succeeded in silencing many of the Biblical critics. The harmony between Scripture and archaeological findings has shed new light upon the debate. 
    Concerning the story of Joseph, it is known that the Semitic Hyksos overthrew the Egyptian dynasties for a period of just over a quarter of a century. During this time, it would have been possible for a Semite to reach the position of prestige occupied by Joseph. In recent times, frescoes have been found in Egyptian tombs depicting fat and thin cows, and inscriptions have been found referring to seven lean and seven opulent years, making this Biblical story more than just a myth. One of the most exciting stories in Scripture, however, is the Exodus.

    According to Biblical chronology, Moses was born in 1530 BC, during the reign of Tutmoses I, who ruled from 1532 to 1508 BC. Tutmoses I was the third pharaoh of the 18th dynasty. The first pharoah was Amoses 1570 to 1553 BC, followed by Amenhotep 1553 to 1532 BC, who was the father of Tutmoses I. This is the pharaoh who issued the decree that all the sons born to the Israelites were to be thrown into the river, but that girls were permitted to live (Exodus 1:22).
    Aaron, the brother of Moses, was born in 1533 BC, prior to the reign of Tutmoses I, and he had thus escaped the vicious decree. According to Biblical chronology, Moses fled Egypt 40 years after his birth in 1490 BC (Remember, we have to calculate backwards, as we are dealing with the time before Christ). Exodus 2:15 tells us about Pharaoh’s reaction:

    So before going deeper we must realize this was before Christ.
    And Horus was pre dated 2500 BC…..

  53. max says:

    I think the comparisons to horus and jesus are a simple way to show how ridiculous these stories of magic are and it’s all just mythology not to say that faith is a bad thing ………but thats just a matter of opinion…..

  54. khalilgparkinson says:

    I realize theirs alot of debators. The problem i noticed is that people are satisfied with not knowing God and that is the reason their not capable of finding Him. Although He has mafe Himself tangable. Ronans 10:9 gives you a simple formula that every Christian now has had to do but Ironically Atheists have refused to do. Be sincere and Say the name of Jesus. Its funny because mrn are trying to use logics to disprove a deity that knows everything, how can you measure up to that.
    If we do it on His terms then that will work. The bible says “no flesh can see God”, so that is saying we cannot find God through our methods. Jesus said He was the only way to God. And Romans 10:9 is the method. We use scientific methods to find facts here but we use no method to find God. Is that strange. God says your current state right now is at odds with me, because of my character Icannot allow it, come to me for some cleaning and then you can be in some fellowship with me. Come find out your purpose. Ive already provide the cleanser. Just accept it. You cannot of your own methods clean yourself. Accept my provision. Romans 10:9 is a means of accepting Gods provision. Faith is a requirement.

    • Jack says:

      Jesus like many other saviors were telling man how to live and how to connect with the creator. Jesus said He was the only way to God, was not to believe in him but to be like him. It is the Christ in all of us that we need to find which we lost when we became flesh. Jesus even said that you will do greater things than I.

      • JONS1973 says:

        That’s not what this article is about. It’s about the claim that the story of Jesus was lifted from ancient Egyptian myth.

  55. The origin of the light says:

    All orginized religion is a mistake. Jesus taught he did not form a new religion, we all know this. People formed these religions to also teach but it became clouded when we did not take others views in perspective. Horus = ancient god. Jesus = “modern deity”. You forget that nothing is new under the sun. These egyptians came before Jesus, who’s to say Horus is not real and Jesus is. Everything is connected under the one true god aka LIGHT. All the stories or myths or whatever are connected. Jesus is Horus is the Son of God is Mohammad is Shiva. All is one. Coexist.

    • JONS1973 says:

      Christians believe Jesus is God. Mulsims beleive he isn’t. So Jesus is not Muhammad. But it is possible to coexist without completely accepting polar opposite points of view. I do it every day. God bless.

  56. jaydi says:

    I like the confident way you debunk but some of your arguments seem rather weak if your point is to prove that the story of Jesus has no comparison with Horus.

    Here try these other ones you failed to mention. I deleted the ones you covered so I can research your remarks.

    2.Both were the “only begotten son” of a god (either Osiris or Yahweh)
    3.Horus’s mother was Meri, Jesus’s mother was Mary.
    4.Horus’s foster father was called Jo-Seph, and Jesus’s foster father was Joseph.
    5.Both foster fathers were of royal descent.
    6.Both were born in a cave (although sometimes Jesus is said to have been born in a stable).
    7.Both had their coming announced to their mother by an angel.
    Horus; birth was heralded by the star Sirius (the morning star). Jesus had his birth heralded by a star in the East (the sun rises in the East).
    8.Ancient Egyptians celebrated the birth of Horus on December 21 (the Winter Solstice). Modern Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25.
    9.Both births were announced by angels (this si nto the same as number 7).
    10.Both had shepherds witnessing the birth.
    11.Horus was visited at birth by “three solar deities” and Jesus was visited by “three wise men”.
    12.After the birth of Horus, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. After the birth of Jesus, Herod tried to have Jesus murdered.
    13.To hide from Herut, the god That tells Isis, “Come, thou goddess Isis, hide thyself with thy child.” To hide from Herod, an angel tells Joseph to “arise and take the young child and his mother and flee into Egypt.”
    14.When Horus came of age, he had a special ritual where his eye was restored. When Jesus (and other Jews) come of age, they have a special ritual called a Bar Mitzvah.
    15.Both Horus and Jesus were 12 at this coming-of-age ritual.
    Neither have any official recorded life histories between the ages of 12 and 30.
    16.Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus. Jesus was baptized in the river Jordan.
    17.Both were baptized at age 30.
    19.Both Anup and John were later beheaded.
    23.Both walked on water, cast out demons, and restored sight to the blind.
    24.Horus “stilled the sea by his power.” Jesus commanded the sea to be still by saying, “Peace, be still.”
    26.Osiris was raised in the town of Anu. Lazarus was raised in Bethanu (literally, “house of Anu”).
    27.Both gods delivered a Sermon on the Mount.
    28.Both were crucified.
    29.Both were crucified next to two thieves.
    30.Both were buried in a tomb.
    31.Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back “three days” later (although Friday night to Sunday morning is hardly three days).
    32.Both had their resurrection announced by women.
    33.Both are supposed to return for a 1000-year reign.
    34.Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means “anointed one”).
    35.Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower.
    36.Both are associated with the zodiac sign of Pisces (the fish).
    37.Both are associated with the symbols of the fish, the beetle, the vine, and the shepherd’s crook.
    38.Horus was born in Anu (“the place of bread”) and Jesus was born in Bethlehem (“the house of bread”).
    39.”The infant Horus was carried out of Egypt to escape the wrath of Typhon. The infant Jesus was carried into Egypt to escape the wrath of Herod. Concerning the infant Jesus, the New Testament states the following prophecy: ‘Out of Egypt have I called my son.'”
    40.Both were transfigured on the mount.
    41.The catacombs of Rome have pictures of the infant Horus being held by his mother, not unlike the modern-day images of “Madonna and Child.”
    Noted English author C. W. King says that both Isis and Mary are called “Immaculate”.
    42.Horus says: “Osiris, I am your son, come to glorify your soul, and to give you even more power.” And Jesus says: “Now is the Son of Man glorified and God is glorified in him. If God is glorified in him, God will glorify the Son in himself, and will glorify him at once.”
    Horus was identified with the Tau (cross).

    • JONS1973 says:

      I have a better idea. Why don’t you show us where in the historical record I may find any if theses supposed facts. I’ve spent years on this, and have found evidence for none of it. Lists like this appear all the time, but notice there’s not a single reference in there that I may look at myself to verify its veracity. I made this same point in the article.

    • Not one of those claims are true about Horus. Even a person with the most basic knowledge of ancient Egyptian mythology would know this. They are bogus. For starters, Horus’s mother’s name was Aset or Isis. Come on now. They would not take a well known mythological figure, such as Hercules and make these claims. It is very easy to take advantage of the fact that most people are clueless about ancient Egyptian mythology.

  57. Dennis Carrier says:

    “Not only that, but we have in the Bible actual eyewitness accounts of Jesus’ crucifixion.” No, we don’t. Yeah, Bill Maher is spouting junk history. But the writer of this article is full of it, too, and obviously so deeply indoctrinated in the Christ myth that objectivity is in question. Christ was dead approximately 30 years before a single word of any Gospel appeared in writing. In 3 decades, any story, no matter how grand and wonderfully supernatural, will get distorted and mythologized. It’s just the way humans are. Remember, Christ wasn’t elected God until the fourth century (Council of Nicea). He won on the second ballot. He lost the first balloting (Council of Aries). So what we have in the Bible are stories that were embellished and changed repeatedly as doctrines and rituals developed, and is hardly a reliable source for anything that is real. I’ve read the entire Bible, and it reads like a heavily edited document. Because it is. They tried to link two completely different testaments into one book, and it doesn’t work very well. It is meant to be an intrinsically linked story. The best way I can express this is that Christ had to be crucified because Eve bit into the apple. So it was a woman who ultimately caused his death. A positive thing about Maher’s film is revealing Presidential candidates who still don’t believe in evolution. Not just human evolution, just the word “evolution” was mentioned by the debate monitor. Now that’s scary. And there’s a hilarious moment when Maher is interviewing a Bible Literalist Senator and says “How can I take seriously a politician who believes in a talking snake?” Now, that’s comedy.

    • JONS1973 says:

      At least you accept the relatively early dating of the gospels. I accept the Christian tradition that the Gospels were either written by eye witnesses to the ministry of Jesus, or they were compiled by their students. Arguments like the Greek in the gospels being too sophisticated for first century Jews is weak. And the idea that Jesus was elected God at Nicaea doesn’t explain all the great quotes from the Early Church Fathers prior to that council who say that he is. As far as young earth creationism goes, I don’t belive in it. But it’s also not what this article is about. I will say this though; politicians who belive our existence is the result of a cosmic accident are equally hilarious.

  58. A nanny moose says:

    Whoever wrote this article is retarded. “There are many similarities but you have to cherry pick…..” Even if they are cherry picked, THE SIMILARITIES ARE STILL THERE RETARD. Jebus Horus Chrikey are people really this stupid?

    • JONS1973 says:

      I’m sure all the developmentally disabled people out there and their families will appreciate your comment. Your insensitivity aside; My point was that one could recreate a story by cherry picking myths. That much is true. But in the case of Jesus and Horus, there are only superficial similarities (like both being gods), but that’s as far as it goes. All the similarities Maher tries to point out are bogus.

  59. Truthseeker says:

    This author is nothing but a bible pusher. He ignores conflicting stories and urges his belief as true. People should be in touch spiritually. But ignoring similarities of several religions and demanding evidence of their stories while yours still has none is nonsense. They all require faith. But your placing faith into something that could be completely mis represented. Go “debunk” the several other sons of God, and tilt your head a little higher.

    • JONS1973 says:

      Like many other commenters here, yours has very little to do with the subject at hand. Rather than sending me on a mission to debunk the similarities between Jesus and other ancient figures (which I’ve already done if you care to look over my other blog posts), why not stck to the subject?

      Also, I’m a rather recent convert to Catholicism. For many years I belived these similarities were true, but upon further research, I have found them to be extremely tenuous, and oftentimes downright false.

  60. peterpnm says:

    That circle with the 8 rays of the sun in the center of the vatican look familiar Christians? It should. it’s a giant Egyptian obelisk PUT THERE By CALIGULA, a testimony to the “hidden one” Amun Ra who is praised at the end of every Christian prayer when you say Amen. http://youtu.be/X5L_x6RHE4s?t=5m53s

    Why don’t you mention the over 180 parallels between the story of Jesus and story of Horus? Not one, not two but 180! In this perspective does it make sense why there is an obelisk in the center of the Vatican?

    Im not sure what YOUR credentials are but The Reverend Thomas William “Tom” Harpur was a professor of the New TestAMENt, Canadian author, broadcaster, columnist and theologian. Belongs to the society of biblical literature studied theology at Oxford. An ordained priest, he is a proponent of the Christ myth theory, the idea that Jesus did not exist but is a fictional or mythological figure. He spent his ENTIRE life studying and teaching the bible.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqlSuvAAjkM

    Both Jesus and Horus have been called the good shepherd, the lamb of God, the bread of life, the son of man, the Word, the fisher, and the winnower. Horus is known as KRST, the anointed one. Jesus was known as the Christ (which means “anointed one”). Horus was sent to Hell and resurrected in 3 days. Jesus was sent to Hell and came back “three days” later. Both were crucified next to two thieves

    The wedding ring, and the ear ring are the from the zionist Saturn cult. Saturn rings get it? Satan whom Saturday is named after. SUN day named after Amun Ra the SUN god.

    Caesarion was declared “the King of Kings” and known as the “Lord of Lords” during the time of his reign, the last pharaonic dynasty to rule Egypt. Son of Julius Ceaser (JC) who was declared God on Earth during his reign. It is also quite significant that “Cleopatra compared her relationship to her son with the Egyptian goddess Isis and her divine child Horus.” They simply stole the story of Horus, word for word, and burned the old libraries and killed the heretics to quiet decent for the new control scheme. http://cosmicconvergence.org/?p=287

    What is most likely the truth about the Pharaohs of Ancient Egypt and the Patriarchs of the Old Testament is that they are one and the same. http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Last-Pharaohs…/dp/0932813119 The word “Britain” means “land of the covenant” in hebrew. The word “British” means “man of the covenant” in hebrew. A covenant is a “promise”. It is described in the Bible’s Book of Genesis (Gene of ISIS). It is “God’s” covenant with Abraham (really pharaoh Amenhemet I “meaning AMUN is the head) promising the land of Isis-Ra-El (ISRAEL) to “God’s” chosen race of people – the Hebrews.

    the greeks got their religion from the egyptians. Herodotus makes it abundantly clear that Zeus is known as Amun among the Egyptians.

    The church didn’t just stamp the pagans out. The pagans who making fun of the church for stealing their religions. The church shut down the school of Plato in Athens and burned the library at Alexandria destroying over 750,000 priceless books. They then burned women at the stake, poured molten lead into childrens faces (baptism by fire) and began the wholesale rape of children with pedophilia. What the church coined as “the ends sanctifying the means.”

    Just as Caligula would’ve liked it.

    Welcome to knowledge. Useless ceremony and endless repetition be gone.

    • JONS1973 says:

      If you care to peruse the rest of my blog, you’ll see I’ve carefully debunked every statement you’ve made here in your comment using the most recent scholarship. I am not myself a scholar of ancient pagan religions, but then neither is Tom Harpur.

    • Jacob says:

      Your entire horrendous post is one giant “citation required.”

      Its like you came in here and spat out your angsty rage without actually reading the post, or the author posts the author mentions above.

  61. johndanup says:

    The historical record is far less conclusive in the case of Jesus the Christ. In fact, there does not appear to be a single piece of archeological evidence which supports the claim that a “Jesus Christ” was ever born in Bethlehem, or ever lived in the exact time frame outlined in the Holy Bible.

    Would it be at all unusual for the Three Magi from the Orient to visit Caesarion at his coronation in 44 BC during the exact same time period of the “most famous comet of antiquity”, which was also known as the “Star of Caesar”? Could it also be that the “Star of Caesar” was actually the Star of Bethlehem which guided the three magi from their kingdoms in the Far East to the actual coronation of the one who was known as Lord of Lords, King of Kings, and Son of God. Son of God because Caesarion’s mother, Cleopatra, was considered to be a divine reincarnation of the Egyptian Goddess Isis, and his father, Julius Caesar, was formally deified as “Divus Iulius” (deified Julius Caesar) in 42 BC by the Second Triumvirate of Rome.

    Why else would the four separate canonical gospels of the New Testament be written by authors who remain unknown to this very day? For what reason, except to cross reference each other in such a way so as to confer legitimacy upon each other’s fictionalized narratives. Of course, the primary and initial fiction was the “Virgin Birth” of the only “Son of God” in a most unlikely place known as Bethlehem, and within an unlikely group of Hebrews known as the tribe of Judah (Jew is short for those who come from this tribe of Israel).

    *The town of Nazareth is not even acknowledged by historians as having existed during the life of Jesus the Christ.

    It must be acknowledged from the outset that such an ongoing, multi-millennial conspiracy to fabricate the most significant and profound piece of history in Western Civilization was perpetrated for very specific reasons, and with great purpose

    Is it a mere coincidence that Julius Caesar and Jesus Christ both ended up with the same initials?

    What is particularly indisputable is the similarity between the Egytpian mythology surrounding Osiris, Isis and Horus and the epic story concerning Julius Caesar, Cleopatra and Caesarion. Just as it is said that the evil Seth cut up Osiris’ body into fourteen pieces, the plotting Senators of ancient Rome stabbed Caesar to death in the Senate inflicting multiple stab wounds from which it was impossible to recover.

    It’s very important to bear in mind that there does not exist any archaeological evidence for the existence of Jesus the Christ as he is described in the Holy Bible. Let’s repeat that extremely critical statement. There has never been found any archaeological evidence anywhere throughout the Holy Land which can be ascribed to the Jesus of the Bible. This is a highly significant scientific and academic reality

    http://cosmicconvergence.org/?p=287

  62. fireofenergy says:

    It’s hard to stay on topic, especially on Christmas night. I enjoy reading and appreciate that there is more to the story than what I knew.
    I feel a presence called consciousness which betrays a belief in the lack of God. I have never seen ghosts, nor heard voices (except for a few in my dreams – and by the creekside), yet find it rather amusing that Earth’s orbit is (almost) exactly 500 light seconds from a star that appears to be (almost) exactly the same size as a Moon which was required to stabilize a planet for the continued development of life. Perhaps I should be more indebted than mere amusement, however, ’cause many more coincidences beyond what would (seem to be) necessary exists. Sticking to the purely physical, for the moment, we have a sixth planet with hexagonal storm patterns at its poles, that Jupiter is in an almost 5 to 2 resonance with Saturn (2:4.966), and other strange physical phenomena (such as light taking billions of years to travel distances throughout the universe, even though from its point of view, all distances are traveled instantaneously. And that the quantum weird is more bizarre.
    Not quite so physical, are the coincidences of how important discoveries occur, such as how nuclear fission ( http://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/200712/physicshistory.cfm ) leads to a possible solution to the consequence of the age old burning of stuff, destined to self fulfill Biblical prophecy concerning heat and fire (Revelation 16:8) via ecxess CO2 caused warming and acidification.

  63. Horacio Favela says:

    Very enlightening! Thank you! By the way I believe Bill Maher is just a comedian, and would do anything to get ratings.

  64. J says:

    Nice article! I’m not a christian myself, but I saw the documentary Zeitgeist yesterday and told myself to say as neutral as possible while watching it. So it’s nice to read a part of the other side of the story, especially since the documentary has been criticised for it’s faults and false facts.

  65. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe says:

    There is no need to debate. Horus was Jesus. Jesus was Horus. The Bible was written entirely independently 2,000 years later without any knowledge of what the Egyptians were scribbling. They were writing about the same individual, both times although the second time, they had not realized it.

    Gottfried Leibniz created the Calculus independently of Isaac Newton. Claude Shannon of AT&T Bell Laboratories created a means of data transmission (coding) nearly identical to David Huffman of M.I.T., again, independently.

    God has many names, but apparently, some thick-boned (think skull) people believe that it’s one myth copying off another myth as if they’re all a bunch of Quakers sitting down side-by-side with their laptops looking to see what their comrades are thinking about while seated next to them, and then flourishing a finishing touch on their “copycat” theory.

    Now you know why I’m Unitarian.

    P.S. God didn’t write the Bible, men did. As a matter of fact, more than one angelic figure was remarkably shocked to discover later (during the 18th century) that man attempted to write down the words that God spoke during his time, believing that humans would find it impossible to understand the allegorical interpretations of what he was saying.

    They were right. Moronic evangelists trying to interpret the Bible and they have no idea of what they’re talking about… and Atheists who read the Bible and take every passage literally again get it completely incorrect; albeit not very far from how wrong evangelists have it as well.

  66. Kay says:

    “Debunking” something so long ago sounds ridiculous!!! If we weren’t there and we’re just going by things that are written, we will probly never know what’s real. I can write the hell out of a story but until God him/herself comes to earth and says “that’s exactly how it happened!” I never would say one belief is better than another. Most religions have too many similarities to ignore or deny and would love to find out we are all talking about the same God. Scriptures in my opinion is more of a morality tool. Last time I checked God wasn’t an author or writer so none of what is written is in the words of the almighty.

  67. Alton Tov says:

    Everyone has a right to their own views on religion but to claim that Horus is a myth and that Jesus isn’t is willful ignorance. We have pictures and writings about Horus yet he isn’t real. We know Jesus existed and so therefore he must have been the son of God. The Gospels were written 100 yrs after his death.

  68. Dan Harte says:

    I just wanted to add some extra weight to Jon’s great article in respect to the fact that the early Christians & Jews would not have had any full knowledge of the Horus legend.
    Forgive me if this point has already been made as I haven’t read every reply here!
    Even if the Jews Christians & pagans had a great deal of knowledge of Horus, it would have been pointed out by the Jews etc as Christianity spread & I’m sure ancient documents would exist accusing Christians of copying this story

  69. Stephanie Brazzell says:

    My father told me a story growing up. He said he went to the job one day and told a friend that he felt as though there was overtime in St.Louis cause he’d been up there a few years ago. By lunch, his friend returned to tell him he was quitting cause the Stlouis hall had put in a call for 20 journeyman at double scale, a perdiem, and lots of overtime. His opinion was adhered to like fact, and 13 electricians quit because people believe anything and perpetuate lies formed through perception and rumors. The Bible is a great book. I read it as a book, front to back for the first time, at 12. What shocked me was the lack of reference to sources. Sunday school teacher told me Darwin was a lunatic idiot. But he proved evolution existed. If Horus was emulated and expanded upon, is that not in turn a lie because all “facts” devived from hearsay? The only proof we have in either case is what was written, not what has been proven.

  70. lonnieksk says:

    Your arguments fail critical thinking criteria left and right. It’s absolutely impressive how bias and selective your points are and yet you speak as someone with authority, while in fact you are regurgitating only the points of others that shelter your beliefs and revert to unsubstantiated dismissals of those that don’t. As though you where an expert with the authority to prove so, and yet you are not and you don’t. You use the carefully selected words of others to prop up your failing argument and revert to near childish rebuttals to dismiss the points of others. You close off other avenues of critical and relevant discussion by claiming things are “off topic” and you justify your arguments by telling people to lookup your other “expert” posts, without excerpts/paraphrasing/or even simple links, as if an obscure reference to your “proven correctness” can support your insulated circular logic……… Unbelievable and perfectly fitting the mold of your faith at the same time.
    Well done.

    • JONS1973 says:

      If you would like to point out some specific examples of my critical thinking failures, I’m happy to respond.

  71. jaymurf says:

    May I ask you Jon what your belief/opinion of how our planet came to be is? I do realise it has nothing to do with this article, but if you could provide some insight into your understanding of this it would be greatly appreciated. I am no scholar. A humble scaffolder in fact and I must thank you for writing this article not because of its content but for the elaborate debate that has resulted. I found your comment about our existence being a result of a cosmic accident very intriguing. What exactly do you believe our existence is a result of? Im sure those who have been paying attention to this thread wont be offended by our deviating from the articles original content. On the contrary i think they will be fascinated. Cheers

    • JONS1973 says:

      I think God created everything that exists. I don’t have a problem with the Big Bang theory (first posited by a Catholic priest) or the theory of evolution (properly understood). I hope that helps.

      • Jero Jones says:

        24/03/2015
        jonsorensen.net
        Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus connection.
        Hi Jon1973
        I would also like to deviate as I am also curious in the fact that the goal post are changing to suit one belief. You say you believe god created everything, and you also believe in the big bang theory (as I do), so you must believe the Bible to be errant by 4.5 billion years, if we take Ussher’s chronology for the birth of the earth as 2004 BCE.
        Cofion (regards)

        Jero Jones, Mab Cymru

        • JONS1973 says:

          No, I do not think the Bible is errant by 4.5 billion years. I think the original author (or authors) of Genesis were not intending the creation story to be read absolutely literally. In other words, it was not intended to be read as a science book.

          • Jero Jones says:

            Hi Jons1973
            Well you better tell that to the Christian fundamentalist who take the bible seriously, word for word. I myself see the bible as errant, with thousand of discrepancy between the several Greek manuscripts, from which today’s Bible is translated from.
            Cofion (regards)

            Jero Jones, Mab Cymru

          • JONS1973 says:

            I take the Bible seriously word for word, also. But I also recognize the there are various types of literature that make up the Bible. Some of it is poetry, some of it is allegory, some of it is history. And most modern translations of the Bible utilize those passages with the fewest discrepancies, meaning what we end up with is as close to the original as possible. In fact, Bart Ehrman even agrees with that statement.

  72. Taz says:

    I think the more important thing to notice from this article is how Bill Maher uses dry facts in order to sway a huge population of confused individuals. Just like John Edwards and his “psychic” powers, Bill feeds on individuals weaknesses in order to push his own twisted agenda. If youre listen to Maher blindly and assume his bullshit as fact you are no better than a Christian who blindly backs the Bible without actual knowledge and research. Thank you Jon for making this point and fuck you Bill Maher you are a cancer who should be eliminated.ta

  73. Noell says:

    wow reading all this was really interesting. I have never heard of any of this before as I was raised in a strict church.. which I have now left.
    Looking back over history it seems like the religion of choice is more an issue than “is there a God” question. The answer is yes.. there is a God, but my religion and God are better than your… it sad that ppl can open their minds and see that if there is a Christian God.. it is the same God. I think most people need a superpower to believe in and they want it to be “the perfect Lamb”

  74. Originalp says:

    In the small amount of research I have done on the internet I simply cannot find enough evidence of similarities between Horus and Jesus to support the idea that the myth of Jesus has been borrowed from the myth of Horus. Some people who are not Christians desperately want to debunk the myth of Jesus. Some people who are devout Christians desperately want to debunk any relation between the mythology of Jesus to the mythology of Horus. Proponents of each side will gather the evidence that supports their personal view and discredits the views of others. Unless people can entirely surrender the lens through which they view Jesus or Horus, then no one is actually dealing with facts. So the whole debate is moot.

  75. […] "Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus Connection,"  a post from the weblog "Jon Sorensen: Blogging on Catholic Apologetics," dated October 25, 2012. […]

  76. […] Jon Sorenson’s article entitled Horus Manure: Debunking the Jesus/Horus Connection at http://www.jonsorensen.net/2012/10/25/horus-manure-debunking-the-jesushorus-connection/ […]

  77. JONS1973 says:

    Nobody in this thread has claimed that a one else is going to hell, or that the earth is only 5,000 years old. Try to stay on topic.

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